17. Pondering the Next Chapter with Matt Donovan
“The trough when people are stressed and relatively a little less happy, is middle age. Whether it’s true or not, you feel like you’re responsible for the younger generation, you feel like you’re responsible for the older generation, and you’re trying to figure out where your plans for yourself fit in.”
On today’s episode, we talk to Matt Donovan, the husband of co-host Tina Donovan. Tina has spoken quite frequently throughout our previous episodes about her marriage and her husband. In this episode, we hear Matt discuss, in his own words, his middlescence journey which has been defined by his desire for change and for more time.
In this episode we discuss with Matt the following:
His lifelong curiosity, his passion for exploration and his eagerness to try new things
Reflections on his personal and professional achievements
The struggles of these last years of his career
The impact of his parent’s midlife strife on his teenage years and his own middlescence experience
The tension between wanting to leave the corporate world and the concern for financial security and healthcare
The need to not take life too seriously and to give oneself time to explore and grow
His hopes of pursuing his neglected interests of travel, painting and playing music
We hope you enjoy putting “a voice to Matt’s name” and hearing his perspectives on many of the middlescence milestones.
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[00:21] Christina Donovan: Do you feel the need for change in your life, but are not sure why or when or how? Do you feel a pressure of running out of time? Do you spend most of your time doing things that are not important to you anymore? These are all symptoms or characteristics of middle essence. And this is our podcast, Messy Middlesence. Hello, this is Christina Conti Donovan and I'm here with my sister, Tara Conti Bansal, and I'm very happy to introduce our guest. Today we will be talking with my husband, Matt Donovan.
[00:58] Tara Bansal: Woohoo.
[00:59] Christina Donovan: And I know you're going to be learning a lot about Matt through our conversation, but before we start, I'd like to say that in case some of these things do not all come out in our discussion, how I view him in many ways as a modern day da Vinci. Yes, a wife's bias is coming through. He is so talented and capable in so many things. He's a tremendous musician, a terrific artist, an incredible writer. Here at our house, we call him the word master for his genius in word puzzles and games. He's so good with people, and best of all, he's mister fix it. He can fix just about anything he needs to in our house. Plumbing, electrical, windows, cars, he does it all. Oh, and he's been very successful in his corporate job too. So welcome back.
[02:00] Matthew Donovan: Oh, thank you both.
[02:01] Tara Bansal: Woohoo.
[02:01] Matthew Donovan: Thanks, Tina. And thanks, Tarrie. Very happy to be here. Congratulations on your podcast. I know, but I'm a little slow to get here. But very proud of you guys and what you guys have been doing. Well, thanks for having me. And that's that introduction. I feel like I'm like starting out on Smartless or something. That was pretty crazy. Thank you. Well, you deserve it.
[02:25] Tara Bansal: Yeah. It's Tina's birthday, so we're recording this on Tina's birthday and I mean, it's been a little bit of a challenge to find a time that worked for Matt. And Tina said, how about we do it today? And I was like, but it's your birthday. And she's like, well, then Matt kinda has to do it.
[02:44] Matthew Donovan: I think she considers this somewhat of a birthday present.
[02:47] Tara Bansal: Yes.
[02:49] Matthew Donovan: I'm happy to be here, though. Thank you.
[02:51] Tara Bansal: I know, Matt, we always start with like, what would you like people to know about you? Just your background in personal and professional.
[03:03] Christina Donovan: Yeah, tell us.
[03:05] Tara Bansal: Yeah, tell us your story in Brene Brown fashion.
[03:07] Matthew Donovan: My story? I don't know. I've always been a curious person. When I was a little kid, I busted out of the house and roamed the neighborhood. And I've always been interested in getting my hands on many different things as a kid. And then when it came time to go to college, I wanted to leave my home state of Massachusetts and get out and see a little more of the world, which brought me all the way to Pennsylvania. I've always enjoyed traveling, meeting new people, doing new things. I can't say it was a wonderful introduction, but I can't say that I'm not good at that many things. I just have always been interested in new things and trying new things. And I think as the years have gone on, I've been less afraid of failing at those things. And so, I mean, that was a wonderful introduction, but I had a friend in college who used to call me the Renaissance puddle. He said, you know a lot of stuff, but you're not too deep. That was pretty funny.
[04:19] Tara Bansal: Tell us, like, your family and where you grew up.
[04:25] Matthew Donovan: Sure. I grew up in Norwell, Massachusetts, which is about 20 minutes south of Boston between Boston and Cape Cod, and I'm one of three brothers and the oldest and grew up in a relatively small house in a relatively tight neighborhood. My parents still live there. It's nice. Our kids went back and visited them last weekend, went to public high school there, Norwell High School. You know, aside from the usual stuff in high school, I did start playing guitar as a kid and did some sports, mostly basketball, played baseball as a kid. And then you said, I went to Lafayette College in Pennsylvania, where I met my beautiful wife. Bounced around a little bit after that in the New York and Philadelphia areas, and then I started out as a teacher after college, actually. It's interesting. So now I'm thinking about this stuff from college, I actually joined the Peace Corps and was going to go teach English in the Philippines. And just before that was going to happen, around graduation time or just before graduation time, there was an uprising in the Philippines, and that was canceled. So I kind of had to recalibrate and started over thinking about different jobs and ended up going into teaching. Started out with substitute teaching, then taking some teaching classes down at Temple University, and I started out as a teacher. And then that, through some happy circumstance, I met people in the it world, someone that Tina was working with who needed help with it training. And I made the leap from teaching to being an IT trainer, which got me into the world of it 30 something years ago, and that has ended up being my career. So from there, I've been the last decade or so, I've been a vice president in it at prudential. That's kind of how we got there professionally. And of course, the most important thing, all that is getting, meeting Tina, being married, having the kids, the work is just a means to an end. For me. It's all about what are you doing outside of work, and what do we do with the family. Super proud of them.
[07:10] Tara Bansal: That's great. What did you teach in what grade?
[07:17] Matthew Donovan: I started out, I was an assistant in special education. I think it was because they needed a young person who could run around and chase kids, so I did some special ed to start. And then there were, as may be the case today, I don't know, but there were a lot of openings in math and science. So despite having studied English in college, I ended up being a fifth grade science teacher, which was super interesting. I really enjoyed it.
[07:56] Tara Bansal: All right, what is most important to you now at this moment in time?
[08:08] Matthew Donovan: It's time with the people that I love at this point. Not worried about growing old necessarily, but the idea that your time is finite, is real, and you start thinking about, you know, spend a lot of sleepless nights working and worrying about working or doing various things which are not quite as important as what you really want to do. And so finding ways to make and preserve time, especially playing for the future, to be able to do that, that's become more and more important in recent years.
[08:56] Tara Bansal: Very nice. What is a change that you're contemplating or a change that you're currently going through?
[09:08] Matthew Donovan: Well, it's. I would very much like to be able to put the corporate world behind me, and I guess, following on that last answer, to be able to do something else that is less demanding of my time so that I can spend more of it with Tina and the family, traveling, seeing places and relaxing and doing the things that we want. We've had a lot of conversations about how to make that happen in the next few years.
[09:42] Tara Bansal: So do you feel like you have a good idea of what that next phase looks like or what you want it to look like?
[09:52] Matthew Donovan: Yeah, I guess. Um, it's. It's twofold. It's being with the right people, and then it's having time to do a lot of the things that I've put aside over years, recent years or less. I don't know how many years, but, um, I would love to pick up a paintbrush again. I'd like to spend more time with. With music. I'd love to go on more extended hikes, do some backpacking, you know, things that take time and. Yeah, so I have. I guess I have a mental list back here somewhere that, you know, there's no shortage of things that I would like to do, and the trick is to make that happen.
[10:40] Tara Bansal: So what are some of the obstacles that are getting in the way for making that happen for you?
[10:47] Matthew Donovan: I think it's a lot of concerns that people, I guess middle aged people like ourselves often, I mean, it's common stuff. It's making sure that the kids are taken care of, making sure that they have a good start with college and such, making sure that if I stop earning corporate dollars, we've got enough income to make it the rest of our lives, that we've got healthcare. Healthcare is a big one. I think everyone I talked to, I had this conversation yesterday at work, a lot of people going through similar peers in mind, going through similar thoughts, and a lot of conversation about how you maintain healthcare. That's an interesting challenge. So, yeah, it's kind of what are the logistics that are needed to kind of launch ourselves on this next chapter of life? And I think getting that foundation in place and knowing that kids and the rest of the family that we depend on and depend on us, we're all set.
[11:57] Tara Bansal: Very well said.
[11:58] Christina Donovan: Yeah. What are you most proud of professionally?
[12:04] Matthew Donovan: I think, honestly, that all over the years, I've always been able to build and maintain teams well. I think that's the reason they keep me around. I now have got about 100 people that report to me on spasm, different teams, and I think that being able to relate to people will be somewhat empathetic, but also organize people to get things done. I think. I think that sense of I come home at the end of the day or the end of the week, I can point to things that the teams did and that were accomplished. When I look around me, I don't feel like I always see that in America. So I think that. That. I don't know if you can call it leadership, but I think that's been more important than being technical or knowing how to write or anything like that.
[13:10] Tara Bansal: What words of advice would you have for your younger self? You can pick whatever timeframe, but just thinking of that's an easy one.
[13:18] Matthew Donovan: That's an easy one. And it's good advice for my kids, but I think it's kind of futile because we're all human, but it's don't take life that seriously, like when we're young, when you're 20 a year is. It's forever. It's a huge percentage of your time on earth. You think you got to get everything, you have to do everything, you have to be everything, and you don't the long road. You know, life's a marathon, and so you don't want to burn your bridges, you want to make good plans, but you don't have to do everything today, and you don't have to be everything to everyone today. So give yourself a chance. And I think, I wish that I had been able to think that way when I was younger. I kind of take down the anxiety levels a little bit, but perhaps that's what wisdom is, getting a little older.
[14:19] Tara Bansal: Well, it's interesting for me because I agree, I think that, I don't know if that's just a common lesson with age, but my perspective of, like, what's the rush and taking more time. And you said it at the beginning, like, not being as afraid to fail as I was when I was younger.
[14:43] Matthew Donovan: So, yeah, I love, I think when we're young, and I think even folks who are our age, like, there's this perception that the world is always watching you and you're in spotlight. And I've come to believe that people are more worried about themselves and the world isn't really watching you. There are times when you do things that stand out that make you get noticed, good and bad. Sometimes you slip on a banana peel. Sometimes you do something, you know, great at work or, you know, a sports field and people say, oh, there, you know, but for the most part, the world, the world doesn't care that you're going along until you do something to make an impression of it. And if you step back and think about that, it gives you some space. Right. You're not under a microscope. Give yourself a chance.
[15:36] Tara Bansal: Yeah. No, I agree.
[15:39] Christina Donovan: What would you say a high point of your life has been?
[15:45] Matthew Donovan: I still think back to living on Cherry Tree Lane and things like when we were in the hammock and, you know, heard our firstborn, Maggie, laugh for the first time. Those are magical times. You know, that's, and that's, that's stuff that you can only do once. You know, those, those times only happen once. So you can't, you can't plan a vacation to go back to when your kids were newborns. And so, you know, I think that, that it's maybe silly and obvious to say, but it's, that, that was life changing, life changing times and, but very happy times. And I think, you know, the excitement of you're really going to do this. We're going to have family, really got these kids like Liza. Yeah. I'm going to say that was highlight.
[16:48] Tara Bansal: You're making me cry, Matt.
[16:52] Christina Donovan: What would you say, is a low point in your life, then that was a high point.
[17:01] Matthew Donovan: I try not to do too many of the low points, but they happen. I mean, I guess as I've inferred here, I am a sinker, and I try to convince myself that, you know, the world isn't always watching, but I can get, as Tina can tell you, I can get anxious, I can get depressed. It comes and goes. So kind of a. There have been low points, certainly, and be dangerous. They probably should open that question to Tina rather than myself. I don't know. I'm not sure what I would point to. I'm not. Not the most comfortable talking with myself, honestly.
[17:48] Tara Bansal: That's okay. Is there anything you're struggling with right now?
[17:57] Matthew Donovan: I can give you a list of challenges. Some of them are just challenges that I'm trying to figure out, and then some of them are. So, you know, if we start with, you know, the kids are getting older. They're adults. Maggie's 22, 23 and going to be 23, and Jack is going to be 17. He just turned 21. And, you know, they see the world their own way. It's. It's their world, it's their path. And I think we gave them a good start, hopefully, and we're very proud of them. But there's that realization that it's their lives and it's largely beyond your control at this point. You know, you can sit in the passenger seat and offer some advice, but they're driving, and so that's. That's an interesting transition. The conversation that we had earlier about changing stages of life and thinking about retirement, that's. That's another big one. And I think it's kind of topical right now, but I just found out I would have to have an ankle surgery. And I keep telling myself I'm going to get in better shape. And then every time I do that, I'm reminded that not as young as we used to be, so that's a little frustrating, but we'll work with that. It's just back to life.
[19:38] Tara Bansal: Is middle life or midlife what you thought it would be?
[19:43] Matthew Donovan: I think so. And. But let me preface that by saying that I remember my dad and my parents going through midlife when I was a teenager, and, of course, I was, you know, a moody teenager, but I remember it being a really hard time for my dad and also for my mom, but more so for my dad. And, you know, I've seen. I've seen these things that I talk about, you know, the kind of the arc of life and how when you're young and you don't know anything, your relative happiness is really high. And then as you get towards later years and you can look at your life and say, proud of this and family's doing well, and I have fewer concerns, fewer things to take care of every day, relative happiness goes back up then the trough when people are stressed and relatively a little less happy is middle age. Right. You're, whether it's true or not, you feel like you're responsible for the younger generation, you feel like you're responsible for the older generation and you're trying to figure out where your plans for yourself fit in. And so, you know, I think these are challenging times in all of our lives, but I guess is middle aged what I expected it to be? I think it probably is kind of what I expected, to be honest. And I'm really looking forward to, you know, I think you have to, you have to make things happen to kind of get climbing up that curve of, you know, making each day a little bit more positive. And, you know, not to get mushy here because, see, my wife is looking at me, but that's where we've had a great partnership for a lot of years and does a tremendous job of reminding me to do the right thing. He's always on the go, always doing things, always getting things done, and makes me look lazy at times. So huge, huge help. We'll get there together.
[22:04] Tara Bansal: Yeah. I would love to hear. Like you said, your parents struggled. What are you willing to share, or can you share around how it was hard for your parents?
[22:20] Matthew Donovan: My dad grew up in kind of a challenging, broken household. His dad left when my dad was a young boy, sort of an irish divorce, if you will. And my dad struggled with trying to help support his brother and sister and mom and not having a dad at home. And I think when I was a kid, he kind of struggled. I was the oldest with what does it mean to be a dad, how I do this? He had ideas. We didn't have examples, you know? And I think that got more and more stressful as I got older. As my brothers got older, we started turning into adults, kind of what I was talking about earlier about our kids, you know, and then, of course, you know, his mom's health started failing. And professionally, you know, it, work was going well, but it was becoming more stressful and all these things kind of pile up in middle age. Right. He's very independent minded, and so he's going to figure this out himself. I think that, that, you know, and I'll be honest, he is probably looking at me right now. I'm probably the same way to a large degree. So. Which. Which I'm sure is that's a flaw. I should listen and take more advice. But I could see that, you know, kind of weighing on him and. But as we got. As we got launched, and then, unfortunately, my grandmother passed away, but things started to settle and come into focus, and I could see him and my mom doing better.
[24:08] Tara Bansal: And I love how you described it. Was the kids, right? Like these growing, independent teenagers, three boys, the pressure of work and taking care of his mom. It's coming from all sides, often in middle age. So, Jeff.
[24:27] Matthew Donovan: Yeah. And I think you see that, and I think. And I wonder, now our kids watch us, and life is a stream, and you never step in the same place twice. Right. The way that we were, the people that we were when Maggie was a teenager, or Jimmy. We're not the same people now that Jack's a teenager. Right. I mean, we're the same people, but we've changed, and the world has changed. Some cases, we moved, the house has changed, and so no one is having the exact same experience.
[25:09] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[25:10] Matthew Donovan: And I wonder. I can think back to the way I experienced my parents middle age, and I wonder, well, what impression do our kids have and how different is it? And I'm sure it's different. They're different people, and they've seen us at different times in our lives. They live with us at different times in our lives.
[25:30] Tara Bansal: What lesson do you hope your kids have learned from you and Tina?
[25:39] Matthew Donovan: I think that you have to get up each day and you have to take care of things. You always have to be overwhelmed, but you have to get out and do things. And Tina and I are different. We have different strengths. For sure. Our family would be nowhere without all the things that Tina does every day for us. And hopefully I'm bringing something to the table. But I think we've seen the kids. They're all very independent and very, very proud of that in different ways. We joke here. We're joking here this week about how Jack gets himself out of bed at 545, 630, whatever time of day it is. He needs to get up every day. He gets up, gets going. I don't think he needs us around. Even the other two have more of a challenge in the mornings. But then, you know, Megan, Jimmy, with their professional careers and their schooling and everything, like, they don't need to be told what to do. They're very well organized. They get out. They've done all kinds of things. Really proud of the crazy variety of things that they've got themselves into. And I think that hope that that's sort of a lesson that they got from Tina and from me, that going back to the idea of don't be afraid to do things and don't be afraid to put yourself out there a little bit.
[27:09] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[27:10] Christina Donovan: What do you think your superpower is, Matt?
[27:14] Matthew Donovan: Superpower?
[27:15] Christina Donovan: I would like to say that Matt thinks my superpower is sleeping.
[27:21] Tara Bansal: Well, I think my superpower is sleeping, too. I think I always say would win if sleeping wasn't in an olympic event. He can sleep anywhere, anytime.
[27:32] Matthew Donovan: Yeah.
[27:32] Christina Donovan: I think it drives Matt crazy how I can fall asleep in, like, five minutes of getting.
[27:37] Matthew Donovan: It's like a switch. You just decide, okay, I'm comfortable. Flip the switch. Boom. And, you know, I'll be up for another 2 hours. But the power, a better answer would be something like, I could fly, or I can hold my breath underwater for two days. But I think back to, like, what makes me successful at work and various things. I've always. And maybe this goes back to being a little kid who ran around in different circles. I've always done a lot of self monitoring where I think you can. You can pretty much drop me anywhere, and I'll find people to talk to and find, you know, find a way to relate. And I enjoy that. I enjoy strangers. I enjoy occasionally being someplace alone with a bunch of strangers and just kind of figuring out who they are and what's going on and fitting in. And I think that ability to kind of read a room and be comfortable with people and connect with them. Yeah. I think that that has been a. That has served me really well over my 55 years in all different, you know, all different arenas.
[28:56] Tara Bansal: That's a pretty great superpower, in my opinion, because I definitely don't have that. Tina, what would you have said is Matt's superpower?
[29:04] Christina Donovan: Definitely his ability with people. He has an ability to put people at ease. You see it all the time. And it's funny because he is an extrovert, but not. I don't know, he's like a weird chameleon with extrovert, introvert. I mean, yeah, he kind of adapts to a setting, but he is amazing to watch with people. And so definitely, I'm not surprised that that's what he said. And I think I might phrase it slightly different, but he has an ability to put people at ease and to make them feel important, which I think is a really special thing.
[29:47] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[29:48] Christina Donovan: Personally.
[29:49] Matthew Donovan: But thank you.
[29:50] Christina Donovan: Except he's not good with names. That's the one thing.
[29:54] Tara Bansal: Well, this is another thing Matt and I are very similar on, is we're both married to people who can sleep anywhere, anytime, and I am terrible with names.
[30:07] Christina Donovan: You know, he's such a people person, and, you know, you can see it like we're talking about. It's a special gift he has, but he really does struggle with putting names to faces. And he'll remember everything about a person, but he won't remember their name. I mean, I should be careful what I say here, but sometimes before we go out, he'll be like, so there's this person, and he'll describe them in detail, tremendous detail, but he can't remember their names, so, yeah, that's, I guess, funny, corporate.
[30:39] Matthew Donovan: Sometimes that happens. That's most of the time we go out. Yeah. I'll be honest, too. I think sometimes that the roots of being able to do that, it may not always be a healthy thing. Right. But I think it's developed into some social skills that have been very useful, so. Yeah, and everybody is important, you know, I mean, everybody make people feel important. I think everybody's good at something. Yeah, a lot of people are good at several things. And I think it's important to be self aware and know that there are, you know, give people credit. There are people out there who are smarter than you are, who are more athletic, better guitar players, you know, whatever. Right. And that's okay. Right?
[31:33] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[31:33] Christina Donovan: And I didn't mean to suggest that you make people feel important in a superficial way. I think that's the thing, though. You have an ability to make people feel like they're making a difference or that they are useful or needed. And, yeah, I didn't mean to mean it in a superficial way at all.
[31:52] Matthew Donovan: I didn't take it that way.
[31:54] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I didn't either. And that's like you said, Matt, that's why they keep you around at work, because, I mean, that's being a good leader and helping teams accomplish a lot. You know, just hearing you talk.
[32:09] Christina Donovan: What.
[32:10] Tara Bansal: What does the word legacy mean to you, Matt?
[32:15] Matthew Donovan: So I'll give you a very simple thought on that, I think. And it's interesting because I said simple, and I'm going to tell a story. You know, right now at work, there's a lot of organizational changes. There's people a lot of years who are my age or a little older who are leaving in different circumstances, and they have a legacy in the office at work. So we work together for x number of years and you start seeing how people are remembered. And I think that the simple answer I was going to give is when you're gone one way or the other, like physically gone or the ultimate gone, you want to be missed. You want there to be stuff about you that people, the good stuff that people think about and say, I missed this, about that person, you know, whether it, you know, whatever, smart, funny, you know, the time they pick their nose and public, whatever, like whatever the story is and not the reverse of that, which is the good rings, thank goodness they're gone, right? You know, that person made life harder. Want to be in that first category where people have a sense that they missed something that you brought to the table and that you were a contributor to people's lives and positive way, how.
[33:45] Tara Bansal: Or what do you want your legacy to be? Have you thought about that? I guess is the first question.
[33:53] Matthew Donovan: Not in a big way. I will say that, and I'm trying not to be presumptuous because every day is a gift and you don't know what's going to happen. I like to think that there's a whole other chapter, a few decades hopefully coming up where we'll be able to do more stuff and continue to evolve as people. And that aside from I'd rather be like, than be a burden, I don't know that I'm up to writing a legacy yet. I think we're getting through a stage of our lives where I'm happy. I think we've been relatively successful with raising a great family, and we've got a lot of. A lot of great family around us and good friends, and we're very fortunate that way. But we'd like to get out and do more stuff in the coming years and maybe make an impact that goes beyond corporate work stuff, you know, do something else with that time. So we'll see. That's a. That's kind of a roundabout non answer. Sorry. But being honest, I think you talked.
[35:11] Tara Bansal: About this a little bit in the beginning. But if money or time, you know, is not an issue, you know, at all, what would you love to do?
[35:24] Matthew Donovan: Love to travel. We probably could have traveled more over recent years. Most of my travel has been for work, but team has the initiative to get us on some trips. And of course, you know, we all know our families spread around the country, which is a great reason to travel some, but we've been a little bit of homebodies during the regular parts of the school and work here. Yeah. But going back to, you know, I love new things, you know, being able to go to a place that you've never been before, especially a place that, you know, looks different, sounds different, smells different, and just kind of absorb it and be reminded how big the world is. Like, be great to be able to do some of that. More of that.
[36:19] Tara Bansal: What are your top? I don't know, three places you would love to go to. No concerns about money.
[36:27] Matthew Donovan: Yeah, it's kind of like a further afield kind of thing. Right. Like, never been to Australia, New Zealand? I'll be in Japan. Be in Japan in two weeks. So that's been covered a few times. And there's a lot of Europe. I mean. I mean, a lot of people spend a lot of time in Europe, but into a handful of countries in Europe and this, I don't know, been two or three countries would love to do. And actually, Maggie did a great job of this when she got out of school. Just to be able to, you know, backpack around and go country to country. They'd love to see more Europe. I'm not sure all the time that's where I want to go, but I'm fascinated by India. I really am. And I'm thinking at some point, might just have to see it.
[37:23] Tara Bansal: Okay.
[37:25] Matthew Donovan: There's a lot going on there.
[37:27] Christina Donovan: And plus, Matt loves the movie. What was Sanderson movie?
[37:31] Matthew Donovan: Oh, arginine limited.
[37:33] Christina Donovan: Yeah. That made a big.
[37:35] Matthew Donovan: We love all the Wes Anderson movies.
[37:38] Christina Donovan: But that one in particular made a big impression on you.
[37:41] Matthew Donovan: Yeah. Also, I mean, work in it. So it's like weekly shade. But I work with a lot of people in India from different parts of places, and it's always so much, you know, so much commotion. So what's going on over there?
[37:53] Tara Bansal: Go to the source.
[37:54] Matthew Donovan: So it would take. Take in the mysticism and just the, you know, the scope of the scale of everything that's happening. It'd be interesting.
[38:04] Tara Bansal: What's your favorite thing to do?
[38:08] Matthew Donovan: I would say if I have downtime, the first thing I retreat to is music. So I really enjoy, you know, on the list of how to spend your time better. I'd like to have more time playing guitar and some other instruments, maybe do some recording. I like writing my own songs. I like listening to new. Finding new bands, you know, different avenues of searching out stuff that wouldn't have otherwise come across. Yeah. And it's an amazing, you know, I mean, the world of, you know, rock and pop music is, you know, what you can do with two or three chords over and over and over again over the history of, like, everything would seem that it had to have been done before, but yet constantly new songs, new music, using the same basic building blocks, but they're so different, and it's like, well, where does the difference come from? Well, it's the person who put it together. Right. It's. Yeah, it's fascinating. So, yeah. So that's. That's my go to, I think.
[39:22] Tara Bansal: Good answer. Not that surprised, but I was curious to hear.
[39:29] Christina Donovan: I mean, you would think, as his wife, I would know this, but do you have a bucket list, Matt, of things that you want to do? Like, I know. Not one written down, but, like, internally in your head?
[39:41] Matthew Donovan: There's a lot of stuff in my head. Yeah. No, I mean, I. You know, right now, we've had a lot of conversations about, like, do we buy a house in Maine? I think that's. That's near the front of the list, something like that. But things like traveling. Yeah, it's not. I don't know, it's. Bucket list doesn't really have checkboxes, necessarily. There are a lot of things I'd like to do. They got me thinking.
[40:19] Tara Bansal: But I like, just to use what you're saying is yours are more broader, like, just playing more music, writing more music. It's not something you just check off, like go see the Taj Mahal or. And maybe you have more of those. I don't know. But that's just my impression.
[40:42] Matthew Donovan: Sorry. Didn't mean to talk over you. But I think some of it, too, is to do with opportunity. There's an opportunity to do something, to say, okay, well, let's just go ahead and do it. And I'm not that great at making lists, and this is. I think this is where Tina and I work well, as a team. Tina is an organized person, mostly. Or maybe I've kind of forced you into that. I apologize if that's the case, but.
[41:09] Christina Donovan: I think you've become a much more organized person than you were. Yeah, I think because of circumstances.
[41:20] Matthew Donovan: Yeah. But I guess in my personal life, I'm not looking to sit down and make lists so much. It's like. It's a little more fluid.
[41:36] Tara Bansal: Is that what you're most excited about for this next phase, or what are you most excited about?
[41:42] Matthew Donovan: Yeah. So the next phase. So it's the freedom. Right. So you have, you know, we're very fortunate that we potentially have the time and the means to be able to pursue the next thing, if you like pursuing. Right. I guess, you know, for some people, that could be a formal bucket list where I'm going to get. I want to knock these ten things off. Or it could just be the ability to, you know, wake up in the morning and say, you know what? Why don't we do this today? Or why don't we go there next week?
[42:15] Tara Bansal: Any question we didn't ask that you would wish we had asked?
[42:22] Matthew Donovan: No. You guys do a great job. And as Tina knows, I wasn't the first one to line up to be interviewed, but you guys made me feel very at ease, very happy we got a chance to talk. I can obviously hang around more. He's birthday, so I'm here as long as you need me.
[42:45] Tara Bansal: Tina. What? Anything else that you wanted to bring up or ask about?
[42:51] Christina Donovan: No. I mean, I think it is kind of funny, like interviewing your husband. I mean, you did it with Nimitz, so you.
[42:59] Tara Bansal: But once again, I learned something. I didn't know you were supposed to go in the Peace Corps. I mean, that is really interesting to me.
[43:07] Christina Donovan: Yeah, that's where his mister fix it would have been good. You can put him in a situation and he. He can pretty much. He's comfortable with a lot of stuff. Different things. Yeah.
[43:22] Tara Bansal: But to see a different part of the world. I know you've been over.
[43:24] Christina Donovan: Yeah. I mean, for him. Yeah. It's too bad that got canceled, but it's also sort of that, you know, path not traveled, like, who knows how you.
[43:35] Matthew Donovan: Well, if I had ended up in the Philippines for a couple of years, you don't know if you and I would have got married.
[43:40] Christina Donovan: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. There's. It's so funny how so much of life is just a little bit of chance and circumstance and what you do with it. Yep. And what you do with it.
[43:53] Tara Bansal: Wow. It's been wonderful. You did not disappoint Matt, but thank you so much for taking the time and being here. It was great.
[44:04] Christina Donovan: Yeah. Thank you, Matt, for taking the time.
[44:07] Matthew Donovan: Thank you both. Thanks for being patient with me, having me on, and really enjoyed it, actually. Thank you.
[44:13] Tara Bansal: I knew of Matt Donovan since my time at Lafayette, and he has now been part of our family for almost 30 years. I know I've said this before, but I learned something new in these interviews, even with people that I thought I knew well. What stood out for me from this conversation with Matt was how introspective, thoughtful, observant, and sensitive he is, which I knew and expected. But I felt like this interview showed how deep he truly is, and even more so than I thought. And this makes sense with his superpower and his artistic talents. Part of why that stood out to me is because Matt's always the one to put others at ease with jokes and good conversation. He often seems laid back and I'm really glad he shared as much as he did. Our time today shows how important the people Matt loves are to him and how proud he is of his family. He has creative talents that he cannot wait to have the time to enjoy in his next phase. I'm excited for him and want that to start happening sooner rather than later. He had many words of wisdom to share. He is as great and wonderful as Tina said at the beginning of the show. I hope you can tell how much I enjoy these interviews and I hope you enjoy them and get value from them. Thank you for listening.
[45:41] Christina Donovan: Our quote today to end the episode is from Martin Luther King Junior. “You don't have to see the whole staircase, just take the first step.”
[45:52] Tara Bansal: For show notes and other information about our podcast, please go to our website, messymiddlescence.com. If you enjoyed listening, please share with others and come back for more.
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Matt Donovan has over 30 years experience in Information Technology and has worked in almost every facet of the profession from customer facing roles as a trainer and project manager, to engineering and architecture, and as a leader of people and strategic direction. He is currently Vice President of Systems at Prudential Financial where he has spent the majority of his career.
Matt was born in Norwell Massachusetts and grew up there with his parents and 2 brothers. He attended Lafayette College in Easton PA and graduated with a BA in English.
He married, Christina Donovan, a fellow Lafayette alum, in 1998. Together they have 3 children: Maggie (23), Jimmy (21) and Jack (17). They reside in the College HIll neighborhood of Easton, PA.
Although Matt left Boston over 40 years ago his loyalty to the Red Sox, Bruins, Patriots and Celtics remains as strong as ever. Matt loves watching his Boston teams but enjoys watching all sports. He has coached many years of softball and ice hockey and continues to play softball and golf.
In addition to sports, Matt plays guitar, loves coffee and beer, and always want to be outside (preferably hiking and bird-watching).
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The movie Matt mentioned and is such a big fan of is: The Darjeeling Limited Movie by Wes Anderson