18. Timeless Happiness -3 (Money Pt. 1)
“A lot of this is, ‘What are your values and what do you hope your life reflects?’ And instead of just saying it, are you doing it and living it?”
In class #3 of the Timeless Happiness series, Tara and Tina take on the topics of money and finances. Tara puts on her “financial planner hat” and walks us through the importance of effectively managing our economic life and the role of finances in our overall well-being. If you are hoping for hard numbers and figures — hold onto that hope for a future episode - because this episode concentrates more on the emotional side of money and finances.
Tara challenges us to consider our personal priorities and values in viewing our financial situations. She stresses the need for a healthy and balanced relationship with money that allows us to both enjoy the present AND plan for the future. She reminds us that money should be viewed as a tool that helps us do the things we want in life.
Tara ends the episode by introducing “George Kinder’s Three Questions” to help change our perspective about the importance of money in our lives and its role in our happiness. This episode hopefully makes us look at money differently and helps us re-evaluate our relationship with it.
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[00:22] Christina Donovan: Do you feel the need for change in your life, but are not sure why or when or how? Do you feel a pressure of running out of time? Do you spend most of your time doing things that are not important to you anymore? These are all symptoms or characteristics of middle essence. And this is our podcast, messy middlessence.
[00:45] Tara Bansal: Hello, this is Tara Bansal and I'm here with my sister, Christina Donovan, and we are jumping back into our timeless happiness class. This is class three. We always, I always start the class going over the home play from the previous one, and Tina and I both did our home play and we're going to talk about that a little bit. And then today's topic is going into money and finances. Thats a big part of life and I think its also a big obstacle or something people worry about very much in their next phase. So well get into that. The homework from last class was to journal again on your ideal day. Tina, did anything new come up for you around that? To me, it's almost just like a little bit of an iterative process to see as you think about it more or have more time to ponder what comes up, if anything new came up or not.
[02:03] Christina Donovan: Not really for me. I think the other part of the homework, it was funny, I feel like we should have done for, for me personally, I should have done the 30 things I want to have do and be first and then gone back and done the journaling around, but I didn't have time to go back.
[02:29] Tara Bansal: So the next part of the homework, and that's interesting feedback, I do feel like they feed on each other, but was too write down 25 to 30 things you want to have, 25 to 30 things you want to do and 25 to 30 things you want to be at first. I'll tell you, for me, doing the have, I felt like I struggled at first with coming up with things and then I would get on a roll and suddenly have a whole bunch of things all at once. And some of them are really small, like waterproof mascara, and some of them are like, I used to have a convertible and someday I would love to have another convertible. So some things are big, but it was funny, just like for me, just it seemed to be hard and then not that hard when you come up with and get on a roll. How about for you, teen?
[03:35] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I think that's true. I mean, I had the easiest time with things I want to do and the things I want to have. I kind of went back and forth on more. Like I started doing things that as I kept going, they became more physical items, like the first few items, or maybe the first half were more. I'm not sure how to describe it, that financial peace of mind or children being independent and happy, like kind of larger, ideal things. And then as I got more and more closer to 30, they were things like, you know, a fancy coffee maker.
[04:21] Tara Bansal: Or a physical wardrobe. I was just going to say that. Yeah, when you phrase it, things you want to have, I love that you brought in, like the peace of mind, or I put on have good posture.
[04:37] Christina Donovan: Good one.
[04:41] Tara Bansal: Good health. And this is where to me, they overlap. I think this was trying to get to physical things. Yet a good number, like you said, of my list, was also not physical things. They're just things I want to have in my life or how I feel. So I think that's a really good point. What were you going to say?
[05:08] Christina Donovan: The one that I struggled with the most was the 30 things I want to be. I actually only got to ten. I couldn't. So I was working in a time constraint, but. And mine were very, I don't even want to say repetitive. They were kind of like the same, like, better friend, better partner, better parent, better sibling.
[05:32] Tara Bansal: And that's what mine was, too, only instead of better, I just said good. And all I kept thinking is like, how do you. How do you define good? Yours is actually even better because you said better than I am. So the b for me was a lot of that. Be a good listener, be a good friend, be a good spouse, be a good mom. And that's the different aspects of who you are and the roles you play. Some of mine were like, even to be someone who helps others, I want to be healthy. I want to be a music lover. And this also gets to how you were. Like, I want to be grounded. I want to be more self aware, in touch with myself and someone who. I put someone who spreads hope that I emanate, hopefully this good energy. Not all the time, because I don't think that's possible, but. And I put some that are very aspirational. Like, I did put podcaster, I put a writer. I'd love to do more art, like be an artist in different forms. So those were. I actually had an easier time with the b. But to your point, it brought up just like this whole, how do you define that or quantitate that or know if you're accomplishing that around money? So many people say, I want more money. And I'm always like, well, that doesn't really have much meaning. What is a good standard? And even with this, what is. What is a good listener? And almost to dig down a little more. And there's so many on that list that part of my reaction is the next step is to prioritize that what's most important to you and focus more on that, at least for a little while. Yeah. The do. I just felt like maybe it's because that could go on forever. Cause it depends on how specific you are. Like I said, I would love to visit all the national parks. But if I listed them all, that would be, you know, their list. Yeah, but, yeah. How about for you?
[08:17] Christina Donovan: Things I want to do. I mean, Matt and I have never done a bucket list. But that was sort of more to me like making a bucket list in terms of just specific things. A lot of mine were around travel, but I did have. And this is where I was saying, I think it ties a little bit into the journaling about your ideal day. I said I would like to knit every day. I would like to garden every day. There are things now that I just don't have time to devote to.
[08:55] Tara Bansal: And that came out like you thought more about it, right?
[08:59] Christina Donovan: Yeah. So, like, journal every day was something that.
[09:05] Tara Bansal: And I think to that point, like a lot of people say they would like to work out every day. They just don't feel like they have the time. But to look at this. And some of it's even, what can you start doing now or doing more than.
[09:22] Christina Donovan: Right?
[09:22] Tara Bansal: Because why?
[09:24] Christina Donovan: I don't know. I mean, I think there is something to be said, like, why would you wait until retirement to, like, what are things that you can do now to try and get a head start on some of these things? I mean, that was one of the things in my. I want to be. Was to be more proactive versus reactive in my life. I feel like both Matt and I, and maybe it's just the time of life, but I feel like we're constantly reacting to stuff, but we're not. We're not planning and we're not proactive. We're not saying, like, this is what we want to get done this year. It's all like, I don't know, putting.
[09:58] Tara Bansal: Trying to fit in.
[09:59] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[10:01] Tara Bansal: And the homework pointed out also, like, which of these require money? Because I feel like money is such a focus. And just like you said, I mean, it doesn't really. And same with me, like, journaling doesn't really require money for me, singing more doesn't require money. Right. I could sing in my car more. So I think it's nice to notice some of the things that actually don't require money that you may be able to start doing right away, and then the things that do require money to prioritize and think of how to accomplish that or how important that is and start keeping that in mind. Yeah. The homework said to choose your top three priorities. I did not do that, but I think that is a good thing to have in mind. And the other is to put timeframes on it. Like we were saying, what of these can you start doing this year? And would. You would love to put that for this year? And some are more. Five years, ten years, three years to think of a timeframe.
[11:21] Christina Donovan: Right. I mean, to your point, there's also. I mean, as you age, some things are going to become impossible. Like, one of the things that I really want to do is they have those trails that are covered in ice that you can skate on. I say this all the time, but, like, that's one of the things. For whatever reason, I just really want to do that. Like, I want to skate for miles, like, on a trail, but there's going to hit a point where I can't skate anymore. Like, I'm either too scary to falling or.
[11:52] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[11:53] Christina Donovan: So, like, I feel like my window for that is closing. That was one of my to dos, but even. Yeah. Like, I have a lot of hiking and biking things on my to do.
[12:04] Tara Bansal: List, and it's like, who knows how long you're gonna. Yeah.
[12:08] Christina Donovan: I mean, I think for the next 1012 years, I could. But, you know, if we put those off for 15 years, we might not be to, you know. Yep.
[12:16] Tara Bansal: I agree. So there is the physical and some of the mental limitations. Yeah. Limitations that you don't really know how long you will have. So to think of that, did you like doing that exercise?
[12:31] Christina Donovan: I did. I am. Yeah. I think it's. You can say what you will about, like, bucket lists and things like this, but I do think they really make you think, you know? And I think the trick is, as you said, is going back and prioritizing the lists and what are the things that are most important or that I'll be really disappointed with on my deathbed that they didn't do. Yeah.
[13:03] Tara Bansal: And that's the perfect segue to the next part of the homework, was to look at the deathbed questions and test and reflect on what you've done and not done in your life. So this is from the power of meaning by Emily E. Smith. I mean, the first question is, are you satisfied with kind of what you've done with your life up till now. What's your reaction to that, Tina?
[13:37] Christina Donovan: That's a hard one. I mean, I think for stay at home moms the way I am, there's always that, should I have gone back to work? Or if I had gone back to work, you know, would there be a better sense of having accomplished something? You know, I mean, having working mothers accomplish independent, strong, healthy children, too? You know what I mean? And, I don't know, I think for mothers or for women who stay at partners, people who stay at home, like, there's less definable achievements, maybe, but, yeah, I mean, it was a choice, and I don't regret that choice in the scheme of things, and.
[14:22] Tara Bansal: Well, for me, I feel like that's more important and admirable, and that was a choice you made, right? Like, I think everybody is different. What came up for me is, am I satisfied? And when I really think about it, I would say yes. Yet I still feel like, this drive, or why am I always pushing myself for more, instead of just being like, no, this is really good enough, and driving myself crazy with just trying to fit too much in. Yeah. The next question was, what do you wish you had done and what do you still have left to do or want to do? I mean, Tina, you talked about that a little bit, right? Like, if you would have gone back to work and that would have changed things for you. I mean, for me, it's not things I regret. You just. I think of it as, like, you imagine this sliding door, if you had made a different choice, how different your life would look in different ways. For me, what came up was that I wish nimit and I hadn't waited so long to get married. And I feel like I had a reason.
[15:51] Christina Donovan: But, yeah, I do think it's a dangerous path sometimes to go down and do these. You know, there are things you can't change, I guess, and things. There is something to be said for. Things happen for a reason. Yeah.
[16:09] Tara Bansal: And I like it. Asking, like, what do you still have left to do or want to do, and what is getting in the way just to think of that.
[16:17] Christina Donovan: Right.
[16:18] Tara Bansal: And for me, I just feel like time, you know, my bandwidth is. That's. I'm pretty. And then it makes me feel. Want. Wanting to dial back more instead of pushing myself more. But that's just me, personally, I feel like that's my own issue. Yeah.
[16:43] Christina Donovan: I mean, that was one of the things in my lists that, like, things that I wanted to have was to be able to give people 100% of my attention and also not to have to multitask, but at the same time, like, if you are doing things that are important, it's almost like this contradiction. Like, if you want to have purpose and be busy and, like, those things are just going to be part of life. And some of it, I guess, is maybe, like you said, dialing back a certain amount so it's not overwhelming. I don't know. There's a fine line, I guess, with some of this stuff.
[17:25] Tara Bansal: And I agree with that. I think there is this tension between being complacent and feeling like you're doing enough. Right, or.
[17:37] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[17:38] Tara Bansal: And then a big question that I always love is, like, what are your hopes for the future? And for me, that's like seeing my boys continue their good relationship and growing up and being independent.
[18:02] Christina Donovan: Yeah. I mean, I think that's a big. I mean, that was one of the things that, you know, was kind of on all three of my lists, you know, having my children independent and happy, you know?
[18:12] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[18:14] Christina Donovan: And, you know, living closer to family, whether it's my children or my siblings, you know.
[18:24] Tara Bansal: I agree with that. And then around legacy, I feel like we ask this question of our guests because I like this question because it is around, like, how do you want to. What impact do you want to have now that people will remember? And I've recently been to a few funerals, unfortunately. But it really makes you think of how you want to be remembered. And I still, in Matt's podcast or interview, it's not necessarily when you pass away. It can be how you're remembered at a job or for teachers at a certain time of people's lives.
[19:15] Christina Donovan: Yeah. Or even, I mean, if you move from a community, you know, how are you, what impact did you have on that community and in leaving it, you know, what are people going to remember about you?
[19:31] Tara Bansal: And to me, that also, just a lot of this is what are your values and what do you hope your life reflects? And instead of just saying it right, are you doing it and living it? Like Tina, you said, to give people your full attention and be present and listen. Well, those are gifts that.
[19:55] Christina Donovan: And they're hard.
[19:59] Tara Bansal: I've had a book on my Amazon wish list on how to become a better listener for years, but I still haven't pulled the trigger.
[20:09] Christina Donovan: But it is. I mean, you're being nobody. I don't think anybody at our age, and maybe any age, it's just we're pulled in so many different directions. And, I mean, if you think about it, how much of your day can, like, you sit and just totally concentrate on one thing, you know, I don't think anybody does that.
[20:30] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And I think we can all do better of like, putting our phone down and try to.
[20:37] Christina Donovan: Putting away the distraction.
[20:39] Tara Bansal: Putting away the distractions. Because I do think our society, we have more and more distractions with more and more information and more and more things pulling us.
[20:50] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[20:52] Tara Bansal: All right. Anything else on the homework or home play and.
[20:56] Christina Donovan: No, I thought it's definitely worth. And it doesn't. I don't know, I kept talking about time constraints, but it doesn't take that long.
[21:05] Tara Bansal: It doesn't. And that's part of this is you could spend 15 minutes, I spent about 15 minutes, and yet you could go back to it many times and keep looking at it. But I do like the lists of have, do and be, and I've done that probably not every year. And to look at how things have changed and things that have stayed on those lists also is interesting to see if you date it and then look back at it as something to just. I wish I had dated more of mine.
[21:42] Christina Donovan: I guess that's actually a pretty important point, I feel like.
[21:47] Tara Bansal: So if you do put it somewhere you can go back to and look at in the future and remind yourself, all right, so now we are going to shift gears and switch to finances and money. There is a financial element of well being. So in the very first class, we talked about the elements of well being and they defined it as effectively managing your economic life. That sounds, I don't know, not very exciting. But what does that mean to you, Tina? I'd love to hear.
[22:33] Christina Donovan: Well, yeah, I guess in hearing that, it's sort of what you had referred to earlier. It's not necessarily having a lot of money. It's being able to fully understand your economic situation and feel like you have control over it, I guess.
[22:54] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And that's. I interpret it. It's not really related to how much money you have. It's a peace of mind and, like, comfort level with your finances and how you're managing that. Because I can tell you there are plenty of people who make over a million dollars a year, yet they stress about it, overspend and still have the.
[23:29] Christina Donovan: Same issues that someone making a 10th of that might make.
[23:32] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[23:33] Christina Donovan: Right.
[23:33] Tara Bansal: And one story that always stands out to me was our sister Cindy went down to South America for a while and she talked about how these people who had no money were so happy. Like, they sang and dance every night after dinner and just that was they were together and didn't focus on material things. Yeah.
[24:02] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[24:03] Tara Bansal: And so I listened to a lot of podcasts and different things because I am interested in this. But the big issue these days is, and even more so with social media, is the keeping up with the joneses of us comparing ourselves to other people. And if we didn't do that, I think most of us would be happier with less. And one of my favorite questions for everyone is to think of, like, what is enough? Like, what do you feel when your needs are met? And I'm not saying you can't have luxuries, but pretty much, I truly believe you can have anything you want, but not everything you want. And so it's choosing what those things are that are most important to you. So how would you rate yourself on a scale of one to ten, Tina? And like, just comfort level with your finances and your financial life?
[25:11] Christina Donovan: I probably give myself a six. I wanted to say seven, but I.
[25:15] Tara Bansal: Remembered our rule of no seven. So it sounds like you would like to improve it. In what way? What way? What would help with that?
[25:28] Christina Donovan: I still feel like, and Terry has worked in full disclosure with Matt and I as a financial advisor, I still feel like around the budgeting that we still don't have, I guess, a complete sense of exactly where all our money goes. I would say most of it is around budgeting and knowing, feeling comfortable about that.
[25:56] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[25:57] Christina Donovan: And I guess the other thing is just, and again, this is just the age that we're at. I mean, there's just, there's enough uncertainties right now with, particularly with college. I mean, our oldest, we've, we're done, but my middle one, and we know what we need to pay for. My middle one, but our youngest is, hasn't started yet. And I mean, when you're looking at colleges, that could be. I mean, it's the difference between, like, I don't know, it could be a couple hundred thousand dollars difference in terms of what they decide and what they get in merit scholarships or so. Yeah, that, I guess would also be a factor in it.
[26:38] Tara Bansal: And that's true. I mean, that's a huge, that will have an impact on your guys finances and that's important. And even besides college, when I dig into this, a lot of this, nobody knows what the future holds with the markets, with inflation, but also within your own life. Like you're saying, Tina, there could be a health issue that suddenly changes things.
[27:11] Christina Donovan: For you, all of us. Yeah.
[27:14] Tara Bansal: And I think that's part of what's hard, is to try to plan to deal with things yet not knowing what they are. Yeah. And yet, not just try to accumulate. Accumulate to be able to handle absolutely every and any situation. So it's a balance of getting insurance. How much insurance do you really need, things like that. It is hard. And the more I do this, I think I've said this before, the numbers give a false sense of certainty, and it's really much more bigger. Broad paintbrush strokes and knowing you're on the right path versus getting down to exact numbers, because that's in the grand scheme of things. That not possible. Yeah, that's not possible. And it's interesting. I mean, I've written about this, but just in the past year, nimit and I got our own financial advisor, and that can be a whole separate call on its own. But for the longest time, we would save. And this goes back to Ann's episode where she's like, we're not great budgeters, but I always was like, as long as you're saving enough, then it's okay.
[28:46] Christina Donovan: Right.
[28:48] Tara Bansal: Because that's by far the most important thing. And so if that works for you, that's great. I felt like. So, just in the past year, I used to use mint, and now we switch to monarch, which is a tracking your finances. It's $100 a year that we've now been tracking our finances for a year. And the reason I did it was I felt like I wanted it to help us make better decisions. Our boys want to go to all these professional sporting events, and how much should we spend on that? Versus going on a vacation, versus going out to eat. And so it was trying to look at planning ahead a little bit of, if we're going to spend this amount, then being more aware of choosing how we want to use that money, I guess. But I still believe as long as you're saving and reaching your saving goals, some people are better digging into the details than others. But. But it's also. Life happens, right? Like, you can have a plan and things are going to be different, and you may make different choices as things go on. To me, money, there's two sides to it. There's the emotional side, which is very important, and the number side. And all too often, financial advisors and planners, I think, spend too much time just on the number side, and you can be good with one and not the other. But ideally, I think it's more important to be good with the emotional side. That doesn't mean burying your head in the sand, where you just ignore it, because that's not really healthy. You may convince yourself that you feel good about it, but I don't think that is true either. A healthy relationship with money is a balance of enjoying the present and planning for the future, and that's part of what's hard. It's paying attention to money in a healthy way. I think my husband has a good relationship with money. I've always thought that. And it was interesting when we met with our financial advisor. He told her he checks our accounts every single day. And I almost, like, fell on the floor. Cause I was like, what? Why do you need to look at it every single day? I mean, I look at it, like, maybe once a quarter. And I was like, I don't think looking at it every single day is that healthy. But I know. I think that's more common than not. But I was like, what is that accomplishing? Like, is that really. I don't know. So it's.
[31:48] Christina Donovan: That's an interesting story. I don't know. I do know as I pay all the bills in our house and I don't check it every day, but I keep a running track in my head of how much money is in our checking account. Like, you could probably ask me at any point, what's your balance? And I might not be able to get it to, like, the dollar, but I can definitely.
[32:09] Tara Bansal: Pretty close.
[32:10] Christina Donovan: Pretty close. And I think that's just, again, it's just like, you kind of start developing these habits sometimes that maybe aren't really root. Like, is that really necessary? That I, like, is that something I need to be expending brain power on? You know? But I do.
[32:29] Tara Bansal: It's just to me that that's a little more practical. And it's not like you necessarily go look every day. It's that you're paying bills and you see it. So that, to me, is, like, I think, based on my experience, the norm is the women pay the bills, and then the men deal with the investments and the bigger, longer term things. And both really should be talking about both in an ideal situation. And it's just one of those that women more often take care of the day to day.
[33:12] Christina Donovan: So that's.
[33:15] Tara Bansal: They're the ones doing that. And my reaction is, but, Tina. So, Tina, you know it because of what you're doing. Nimitz looking to see what the market did and how that changed it, so he has no control over the market. And my point is, we're not taking money out now. Who really cares? But on your checking account, you need, you know, you don't want it to back this idea.
[33:40] Christina Donovan: I think that in the back of your head, you're keeping track. I mean, you know, and granted, mine is more of like the minute detail and his is more the bigger picture, but it's this idea of, I think it's a way of kind of keeping control on something that, you know.
[34:01] Tara Bansal: You don't have full control over. I think that's part of what, and that brings up in a healthy way if it affects you when your account goes below a certain level or your investment account drops by a certain amount that you can't. We always ask, like, we want you to be able to sleep at night and different people have different thresholds for that, and that's really important. But it's paying attention to it in a, I think of it as parenting.
[34:34] Christina Donovan: Right.
[34:34] Tara Bansal: Like in a healthy way, instead of a helicopter parent or what do they call a snowplow parent. Like, that's not healthy, right. That there is, you don't, I always say you don't want the money to rule your life, yet is it part of your life? Yes. And how to find that balance can be challenging, but I think it's important.
[35:02] Christina Donovan: So do you think it's not healthy that Nimit looks at his balances every day?
[35:07] Tara Bansal: I do not.
[35:08] Christina Donovan: Or the market.
[35:09] Tara Bansal: Yeah, but he's going to keep doing it and I don't think he doesn't get upset about it. But it was really interesting to me that he does do it every day because I do not really interest. And part of it was just that I didn't know that he did.
[35:30] Christina Donovan: That was something he was doing every day that.
[35:34] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I mean, we've said this before, or I've said that thinking about what is enough for you. I think the default is everybody just wants more. And so this goes to keeping up with the Joneses when your friends are doing something or.
[35:52] Christina Donovan: Yeah, but there's also a thing in our society that I think you should be making your money work for you. You know, that there's something lacking if you're not investing or getting good returns or like, I think that just, you see that on, everywhere, social media, on the television, you know, this idea that.
[36:15] Tara Bansal: But to me there's a difference of making your money work for you and looking for the magic bullet or this investment that is going to, I mean, I'm all about passive investing. Be in the market, but slow and steady will win the race. Instead of, I think people keep searching and thinking there's this secret that they don't know and that's not true. I don't know. My philosophy in investing is it's not searching out the next apple or. Yeah, right. And if you did choose that, that's wonderful. But most mutual funds now hold those. And it's also a little bit of, like, how much mental time and energy do you want to spend on it? I don't know. That goes to enough. Right. For me of like, as long as you are invested and if you find someone, you know, we talk about this later, like, you don't have to do the research. You have someone you trust and agree with their investment philosophy. That's important. But I mean, I'll never forget I had this client who, she put money into her retirement account for 40 years and never invested it. It just sat in cash. And I mean, it broke my heart. Yeah, it just broke my heart. And she was like, well, I didn't know what to do, so I didn't do anything. It was 40 years of sitting in cash. And I, like, I'll never forget it because I didn't want to beat her up. Like, I didn't want it to feel worse.
[38:10] Christina Donovan: I didn't even know you could do that.
[38:11] Tara Bansal: Well, now they've changed things now so that, yeah, like, it goes to a default and you have to actually make a change. But she was old enough that that's what had happened for her.
[38:25] Christina Donovan: Wow.
[38:25] Tara Bansal: But I will never forget that. Another book I highly, highly recommend is called the soul of money by Lynn Twist. We'll post this in the notes and I'll also post, like I wrote kind of my summary. So a one page thing versus a whole book. But I love that book. And it's all about what's money for and how to have your money align with your values. And it's a beautiful book that I think everyone should read. I'm switching gears here to getting. I mean, money is a tool, and it should be a tool thats helping you do the things you want in your life or have the peace of mind that you want in your life. I got into financial planning because of George kinder, so you can look him up. He calls it life planning. He has a famous thing of these three questions. So the first question is, imagine that you have enough money to take care of your needs now and in the future. How would you live your life? Would you change anything? So to me, this is like you won $10 million or you can pick the number in a lottery, you know you have enough money. How would that change what you do? Like, there's the fame, you know, stories of people winning the lottery and they still keep going to work because they like their job. What would you change in your life if you knew you had enough money to do the things you wanted? And I'd like you to just ponder that. I don't know, Tina. I don't want to put you on the spot, but if anything comes to mind of big changes you would make, I'll give an example for me. And we do have. I feel like we have enough money, but I always had this dream of not having to park at the airport, where, you know, we would spend the money to have a cab or a taxi or something take us to the airport so we didn't have to park. It sounds silly. And now with Uber and Lyft, it is much easier, and we do do it more. But that was, like, something I thought of. If I had enough money, I would pay to have someone drive me to the airport. Another one for me is get more massages. It's just something that I feel uncomfortable spending that money on myself. But those are two that just jump out for me of if I knew money was not an issue. And generally, I don't feel like I think about money as an issue. I think my financial advisor was like, yeah, I put a nine out of ten for where I stand in my comfort level. And she's like, I've never seen anyone do that. Where is your job? It is my job. It is my job. And I feel like I'm blessed enough for multiple reasons, but, yeah, I feel like this is what I do, and that's what I want other people to feel and be with around money and do. I have plenty of other issues, but my relationship around money is not one of them. Is not one of them. Anything come up for you just with that first question?
[42:06] Christina Donovan: Yeah. I mean, listening to you, I think goes kind of along the lines of going to the airport. I mean, I would love to have somebody help clean my house. I mean, I clean my house. It's one of those expenses that it doesn't make sense for us to spend on because I'm here, but it does. It takes a big part of my day, and it's not work I enjoy. And that, to me, would be something that would, I think, completely change my life. And I will say that was one of the things I wanted on my lists that we did in the.
[42:45] Tara Bansal: Was to. If I was your financial advisor, I'd be like, okay, so let's look at that. You know, like. And you may look at the dollar amount and be like, yeah, that's not worth it to me. But part of this question is, you know, you have enough money, right?
[43:02] Christina Donovan: So that would be a way for.
[43:04] Tara Bansal: Me to shift that time, that time.
[43:08] Christina Donovan: To something that I would rather be doing. Yeah. And.
[43:14] Tara Bansal: All right, the next question is, imagine that your doctor says you only have five to ten years to live. You won't feel sick, but you'll never know when death will come. What will you do? Will you change your life and how? I mean, part of me feels like this is true for all of us. We just don't think about it. Yeah. It gives you a definite timeframe of you only have five to ten years left to live. And what would you prioritize?
[43:47] Christina Donovan: For me, it would just be either just spending time with family. I mean, whether it is traveling more together or having more get together, I don't know. But to me, it would be just about spending, being able to spend the time with the people I love. Maybe it would involve doing a trip here or there or something like that, but it would be mostly about focused on being with the people I want to be with.
[44:20] Tara Bansal: This, to me, also plays into finances, because a big concern is always running out of money. You do not know how long you're going to live. And I always say, if you tell me when youre going to die, I can tell you much more accurately how much you can spend each year. I think Tinas answer would be the same as mine. And the focus is not around things. Its more around time with people. And that goes to also the answers from the deathbed test was people want, you know, that's what they regret, is not spending time with their kids or spending time with the people they enjoy. All right, then the last question is, now imagine that your doctor says you only have one day left to live. Ask yourself, what did I miss? What did I not get to be or do? And this is just like the deathbed. It's pretty much the same question. I've heard people. What's interesting is what people would like to do with that last day. Like, I'll never forget this one woman. She's like, I would fly all my friends in to see me, and I would just throw the greatest, biggest party ever. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, that is not what I would do. But that was her first reaction, and that's what she wanted, to, like, get as many people that, you know to see them in that 24 hours. She's like, I would not sleep. I would just, wow. What comes up for you, Tina, in that question?
[46:12] Christina Donovan: I think it's a lot of the same. I mean, I. Except I'd want to be outside.
[46:17] Tara Bansal: Yeah. I think right now for me, I would want to spend it with a smaller group of people. And I think what's hard is like even choosing that. Right? Yeah. But I'd like to write a letter to my boys or things like that.
[46:39] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I mean, I guess, yeah. When you think, I mean, it's a hard thing to think about. Like, you know, if you knew you only had 24 hours, you would want to allot every probably second of that time doing things like that. I mean, that didn't come to mind, but yeah, like.
[47:00] Tara Bansal: And I think it's important and part of George Kinder's philosophy is this isn't what's important isn't really about money. And yet we spend so much time and energy focusing and worrying about it and it's to think of those things and I don't know, that's part of why I want to do this podcast, is to get people to just start thinking. That's the first step. So we still have a lot more on finances that we will get to look forward to next time. This is in my wheelhouse and something I'm passionate about, but this is it for today. And as always, we would love to hear your comments and if you have questions, please let us know. But we are grateful that you're here listening to us and we hope you have a good day.
[48:05] Christina Donovan: So we hope you are not disappointed by the lack of hard numbers in our finance episode of the Timeless Happiness series. I think when people hear retirement, they first think about money and savings and investments, all with good reason. But as Tara stated earlier in the episode, there is a numbers side and an emotional side to finances, and today we focus more on one's relationship to money and how that should be aligned with your values. This is a crucial step in ensuring you are living the life you want. And as always, I want to point out that these conversations do not need to be specific to retirement. There are important life lessons for anyone looking or needing change in their life. The exercises in home play that we have been posting and discussing may seem reiterative, and this is on purpose. Many of these exercises are different ways of generating the same ideas to assist you in identifying your values and your priorities. And as we have said in other timeless happiness episodes, the important thing is to just begin. These first steps and exercises will help you start your journey wherever it may lead. Finally, we have many great postings in our show notes this week that we hope you will take advantage of. We did not talk earlier about the home play in the episode, but we actually have home play this week that is comprised of three parts. The first set uses questions to assess and define your relationship to money, and the other part of the home play has you contemplating and answering George Kinder's three essential questions. You might have already started to do that as we were discussing the questions in the episode, but again, it lists the questions and asks you to contemplate and define them for yourself. Hopefully, some of these exercises will help prioritize the items of our previous home play from our earlier episode, where we did the 30 things I want to have, I want to do, and I want to be. We have also posted a link to the soul of money by Lynn Twist, which we hope you will check out. Thank you. See you soon.
[50:43] Tara Bansal: For show notes and other information about our podcast, please go to our website, messymiddlescence.com. if you enjoyed listening, please share with others and come back for more.
[50:56] Christina Donovan: Our quote today is by George Horace Lorimer
“It's good to have money and the things that money can buy. But it's good, too, to check up once in a while and make sure that you haven't lost the things that money can't buy.”
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Princeton Adult School Classes and Information
Class 2 Timeless Happiness Slides
Link to pdf of Timeless Happiness Class 2 Homeplay
Class 3 Timeless Happiness Slides
Link to pdf of Timeless Happiness Class 3 Homeplay
The Power of Meaning: Finding Fulfillment in a World Obsessed with Happiness by Emily Esfahani Smith
Budgeting or Spending Tracking Software Tara uses is Monarch Money
Scroll down on this page to see: The Soul of Money: Transforming your Relationship with Money and Life by Lynne Twist
Link to Blog Post Tara wrote about The Soul of Money
Information on George Kinder and the Kinder Institute of Life Planning
Interview and Podcast with George Kinder discussing his 3 Questions: George Kinder: Three Guiding Questions To Reveal Your Fulfilling Retirement