16. Timeless Happiness -2
“It’s this idea of starting to think about what’s next and what I want and what he wants and to feel like... there’s something out beyond the tunnel that he’s in, you know, and that the closer he gets, I think the more excited he will be.”
In this episode of Messy Middlescence, Tina and Tara share their insights from the second timeless happiness class. They share their experiences with the homeplay exercises, highlighting the challenges and eye-opening moments they encountered.
They discuss trying to design ideal weeks for retirement, including the influence of a spouse or partner, free time availability, and shifting from a Monday to Friday routine. They also emphasize the importance of adapting structures, different seasons, and being open to new possibilities in the next phase of life.
They explore the concept of ikigai and finding purpose. Additionally, they delve into the power of contribution and leveraging your knowledge. The hosts encourage listeners to think about their ideal days and use journaling to explore their visions for the future. They emphasize the significance of considering the deathbed questions and living with purpose throughout the messy middle of life.
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[00:21] Christina Donovan: Do you feel the need for change in your life, but are not sure why or when or how? Do you feel a pressure of running out of time? Do you spend most of your time doing things that are not important to you anymore? These are all symptoms or characteristics of middlesence. And this is our podcast, messy Middlesence.
[00:44] Tara Bansal: Hello, this is Tara Bansal, and I'm here with my sister, Christina Conti Donovan, and we are jumping back into our timeless happiness class. And what I thought was Tina and I are pretending we're going through the class together. And so we both did the exercises and homework from class one, and I always start the second class with that. Like, what, what were the takeaways? Or what did people learn or experience going through those exercises? So if you haven't listened to the timeless happiness one episode, you may want to go there and, or you can just look at the exercises in the show notes if you want to see what we're talking about. Tina, what, how was this for you?
[01:45] Christina Donovan: But it's very eye opening and it's harder. Like when you look at the, when you initially look at the material, you.
[01:53] Tara Bansal: Think, oh, like, this will be pretty.
[01:55] Christina Donovan: Easy to fill out. But then once you start doing it, it's more challenging than you might think. And there's a couple things that stood out to me. I think in terms of not ways it could be more helpful, but maybe ways it should be customized for individuals. I guess the big thing was how much time I spend sleeping.
[02:16] Tara Bansal: Well, I think that's true for all of us. Right. As a percentage of each of our day, we. Right.
[02:22] Christina Donovan: And then to see as a percentage of your week, it's like, wow. The things that I found difficult about it was one, I mean, I didn't do it with Matt. And I think if you have a spouse or partner and you will both be retired, I think that that can influence both the time portfolios and the.
[02:47] Tara Bansal: Ideal week and every aspect of it. Right. Like, I mean, I, I think only once or twice in my class were both members of the couple there. And I agree. After I did this, I had the same reaction, was like a very important voice in this next phase is not part of the discussion. And I think part of it is, I like the idea of both doing it separately, but then you must and need to do it together. Do it together, too, because those, depending on where you are, what you imagine for this next phase, hopefully your spouse and you can know, come to agreement and align some of those things, but they may not always be aligned, and that can be challenging.
[03:46] Christina Donovan: Yeah. And I mean, I think some of it has to do almost around how much free time you have as an individual. I mean, if there's things you're going to be doing as a couple or things that, you know, your spouse is going to want to do by himself or things that you like. For instance, Matt plays golf. I don't play golf. So, you know, if you were going to golf twice a week, I mean, that would open up a nice block of time for me to do a hobby or class. Right. So I guess the other thing that I afterwards, because I kept thinking about it and I almost went back and changed it and then I didn't. But in the ideal week in retirement, I do think one of the things that happens is you get locked into, especially if you're still working this Monday to Friday, nine to five routine. And I suspect that in retirement, things are going to shift. I know even just as somebody who's at home, for instance, I don't go to the grocery store on the weekends because it's so busy, I don't want to. Yeah, I can get it done on non peak times. And for people that are going to be utilizing public spaces, I mean, whether they're hiking trails or, I don't know, public libraries, you may be shifting instead of doing those things on the weekends. You want to take care of them during the week when things are less busy and not at their peak. So when I went back and looked at my ideal week in retirement, I suspect that some things might shift in terms of the days of the week, but I suppose that's not really that important in the scheme of things. It's just kind of allocating the time.
[05:33] Tara Bansal: Correct, correct. And I think you bring up a good point of just these structures that we've had mentally for our lives, you know, having it change, it may take a little while to adjust to that, but with the feedback loop, I think you're going to be like, just with, like the food store. Oh, if you can avoid it on.
[05:58] Christina Donovan: The weekend.
[06:00] Tara Bansal: That'S not what I want. Or these hiking trails are really busy on the weekends, so I'd rather go at different times or do different things. So, yeah, I agree. Did you come up for a title? Like one of the things for me? I think I titled it and I don't have it in front of me, but I thought it was like enjoying freedom for my next phase. So the focus of one, enjoyment and two, embracing the freedom and flexibility and what that looks like. And I also, to your point, Tina, the charts that we gave should be customized, I think, because even within work career, like for me right now, my work has different things and so that's almost like too big a bucket. And I would like to break that down and how I hope it will change in the way my, you know, I'm working. And so part of this is feel free to make this what works for you in different categories or breaking things down more so just for you to be able to, you know.
[07:20] Christina Donovan: Yeah. I mean, I wondered if even remove, like, I mean, to see this as maybe a template, but to remove the options and then have sort of how you have the visioning words. Have family, friends, work, volunteer, downtime, sleep, health, fitness, maybe hobby. I know for me, my work and career is like housework and yard work. But I mean, it did seem like there needed to be. You needed to drill down a little bit more into some of the different.
[08:02] Tara Bansal: I agree. Even family, to me, like immediate family versus spouse versus extended family, like, I.
[08:11] Christina Donovan: Had that kind of. Although that was. You made me feel guilty when we saw each other's. And I think I had like 25 hours a week for family. And you had like over double that.
[08:28] Tara Bansal: Well, I have young kids. Your kids aren't at home anymore?
[08:32] Christina Donovan: No, I mean, for. That was the desired time.
[08:37] Tara Bansal: Wow. I think that's. And that this is part of the other is we keep saying this, but what you think and what you live may not be what you like and what you want to. So, you know. Yeah, I obviously calculated that in my head and that may not be realistic or possible or whatever. Right. So that's a little bit of. And I love your suggestion. And maybe that is like, there needs to be more categories for people to. These are almost two big buckets in the way it's presented right now. And I think that's a great thing to change and think about. When you did the ideal week with just like morning, afternoon, evening and even that, I felt like those are two big buckets. I would almost rather have like, I don't know, two hour windows or you could just, you know, do. I don't know, my afternoon. I was thinking, the way I do it now is I work from like ten to three and that's mid afternoon, and then I have late afternoon, you know, like, so I wish and would like more have that broken down a little more for me just when you imagine it.
[10:03] Christina Donovan: Yeah. And I mean, I think the other thing for me, the seasons make a big difference.
[10:11] Tara Bansal: Exactly. Yeah.
[10:12] Christina Donovan: And I do think especially in retirement where you may travel more in a particular time of year, or maybe you have more than one residence and you spend a different place. So that might affect. I guess I'm curious. I mean, I don't want you to betray confidences from your class, but what were some of the. I mean, you obviously saw people do these and talk about these when you taught the class. I mean, what stood out to you from what people filled out and how they reacted to them in the class?
[10:53] Tara Bansal: I think most people had a similar reaction, although I have to admit, nobody really said. Cause I would have changed, like, the chart, that it should be more, you know, more detailed or more broken down. And a lot of comments of what you just said is it'll. It depends on the season. It depends on different things. And. And my react. My reaction to that is, well, then do different charts. Right. Like, it's going.
[11:30] Christina Donovan: Then that was kind of expand it. Like, do a spring, a summer, fall, a winter, and just make it more detailed for each.
[11:37] Tara Bansal: Yeah, for each. And it's more just to get you thinking than anything else. Like, even both Tina and I put, like, classes down in ours. And what kind of classes would you like to take? Like, do you have any ideas or any you'd be willing to share? Team?
[12:00] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I mean, I have lots of classes I want to take. I know. Like, when I heard in our interview with Kellie that she had gone back to school, I was kind of jealous. I mean, I have the time to do something like that, but it would take away from other things right now that I feel in terms of responsibilities I have. But I would love to take some type of flower arranging class. Anything with, like, just, like, fun, like cake decorating or cookie decorating. And then, I mean, I would like to take more seriously, possibly like, an accounting class or even just, like, I feel like I'm pretty technical, but, yeah, even to, like, update. Sometimes I feel like I don't use the applications that I have to their full.
[12:54] Tara Bansal: Oh, yeah. I feel like technology is moving faster.
[13:00] Christina Donovan: Yeah, something like that. I don't know. Yeah, I can look at a course catalog and pick out, like, 16 different classes that I think are interesting and that I'd like to do. How about you?
[13:13] Tara Bansal: Part of it is right now, like.
[13:15] Christina Donovan: You have to take classes for.
[13:17] Tara Bansal: Well, I have to take classes, but that's not really fun. At least I don't think of it as fun. But there was a golf, like, beginner's golf class, and I don't know if you think about that for something to do with nimit. And he was all like, why don't you do it?
[13:35] Christina Donovan: Why don't you do it?
[13:36] Tara Bansal: And I was like, I have so much on my plate. That's not what I want to be doing right now. There was an introduction to pickleball that if I got to do it with girlfriends or tennis, I think that could be, like, both social and, you know, fun. Like, I'm embarrassed to say this, but, like, to learn to read music and sing, because I don't know how to read music, and I would. I would love to sing. So, like, if I had someone to do that with, I would consider doing that, too. Learning a new language. I don't know. It just seems like there's different things that we all talk about, but it's really, like, is it a priority to find the time and want to do.
[14:23] Christina Donovan: It and to find a place that you can take it that I think is convenient and affordable? And, you know, those things definitely factor in as well.
[14:38] Tara Bansal: So, I mean, for me, like, just the journaling around it of thinking more. Like, I put, like, traveling maybe four times a year and at the max. Right. And one is possibly going somewhere and staying there for an extended time period just because I like being in one place and then kind of settling in and exploring from there. So to do that in a different culture, I think, would be different than just going. I mean, most of our travels right now are, like, long weekends. We don't usually even go for a full week for various reasons, but that would be a big. Yeah.
[15:30] Christina Donovan: I have a friend of mine who her parents, for the past three years, have spent January and February in Spain. Like, they pick a place and they rent a house, and it's not a full two months. I want to say maybe it's six weeks. Six weeks?
[15:49] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[15:50] Christina Donovan: Regardless, though, it seems like a really neat way to experience a culture. And, I mean, according to my friend, she said it's actually cheaper where they go. They don't go to, like, one of the main cities. They're in, like, a small village. But, yeah, it sounds wonderful. And we were talking as a group once. If we all end up retiring in different places, that's a way to reconnect. You spend a month or six weeks always in the same place or maybe trying different places. I don't know. It's a way to kind of travel and socialize. Fun to think about.
[16:31] Tara Bansal: Yeah, it is fun to think about. I mean, Nimitz parents have a really close knit group, and, like, I don't know, it's six of them that, like, all live on the same street. And my group of friends, we talk about that like, it's almost like going back to college where you get to.
[16:51] Christina Donovan: You know, hang out at people's streets.
[16:55] Tara Bansal: Hang out and be able to do that as part of a dream. I mean, Tina, I, like, part of me is if we lived closer, we talked about, like, we would, I don't know, bike or run or train for a triathlon together. And, you know, that could be fun. So that's part of, I guess, the emphasis on friends and the community you want to spend time with and how to make that happen and incorporate that and even just brainstorming different ideas around that. I think, like you were saying, like, if everybody went to somewhere, you know.
[17:35] Christina Donovan: If they're not, you know, if they can. If they can or. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of what ifs, but it's fun to think about. And it definitely, you know, is an option if you're going to end up, maybe retire, maybe not you, maybe people that you had expected you'd be seeing regularly in your retirement move away, you know, a way to kind of keep in touch.
[17:57] Tara Bansal: And then the last was the designing your life where you in the categories. We talked about this a little bit with nimit. Love, play, work and health on a scale of one to ten. And I think this is just a good exercise to do occasionally or regularly.
[18:19] Christina Donovan: Once a month, once a season.
[18:22] Tara Bansal: And it's at that point of time, I mean, I was, I think yesterday I was tired and compared to, like, what I gave my life, you know, on our first episode, I think I gave it an eight. I don't know that any of my numbers. Maybe one number was an eight, but the rest were, like, one was a four and, you know, like. But Tina and I almost, like, it was bizarre. Our words were very similar.
[18:51] Christina Donovan: That's why I started laughing when she brought it up, because, yeah, it was sort of funny.
[18:56] Tara Bansal: First I thought you had, like, copied mine.
[19:00] Christina Donovan: And I have to say, even though Terry sent me hers, I had already done mine. I saw hers first, but I had already done mine by the time I saw Terry's.
[19:09] Tara Bansal: And I mean, Tina, are you willing to share any of that or.
[19:14] Christina Donovan: Sure. I mean, like, I gave love a six. And, I mean, a lot of that is just. That's where we are in our life right now. I mean, Matt works a lot. He was in Japan for over a week. And, I mean, he's gone. He has long days. And then even when he comes home, like, I don't know, it's very. We getting stuff done. Yeah. Yeah, maybe so. Yeah, that's just more quality time is needed for play. I gave five because I just don't feel like I have enough free time in my life right now to add play or to do more play. I gave work an eight, which is actually the highest of my four numbers and might seem weird, but my youngest is 16 now. He drives and, I mean, my work is taking care of my family and our house, and things have gotten easier. I mean, I still am busy, but I don't feel like I'm frantic. And I do have fewer tasks because I'm not driving anymore or I'm driving much less because Jack can drive, which is a big time changer in the scheme of things. So, yeah, I mean, in that respect, it's, I guess, probably why that has cranked up. And then I gave my health a seven. I kind of went back and forth on this. I mean, generally I feel good and I feel healthy. I'm definitely having some issues with menopause. I do wish I slept better. Yeah, I have some hormonal changes that definitely affect, like, my day to day, but they're not awful. And, you know, I feel good with my exercise and where I am in terms of that. And generally I feel like I have good energy. So, yeah, that was sort of a tough. Do I score a little higher or lower? And I went a little higher and it's probably accurate.
[21:32] Tara Bansal: Yeah, well, I'll just quickly love. I gave a six and I just said, want more quality time and connection. And that's not just with nimit, but just with people in general. I feel like play. I put four and just said, not enough. More play. Work. I gave it a six. I just feel like right now I'm busier than I want to be. The uncertainty and trying to figure out exactly more of what I want to do.
[22:03] Christina Donovan: Thank you. Juggle a lot.
[22:05] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I just feel like, as a.
[22:07] Christina Donovan: Working mom, I put, like I'm kind.
[22:10] Tara Bansal: Of half assing everything. Like I'm just doing the best I can, but I don't feel like I'm doing it as well as I would like because I don't have the time. In health. I gave an eight. I mean, I'm not sleeping well, just my headaches and my hot flashes have been very uncomfortable lately. So in our house, there's the. Alex is the one. I think he saw it on YouTube. When you rate on a scale of one to ten, you can't give a seven because almost everyone usually gives a seven, but it's trying to think, am I below a seven or above a seven? And so I didn't do any sevens. I can't even remember if I was purposely thinking that. But in our house.
[22:59] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I'm glad I didn't give all.
[23:02] Tara Bansal: Sevens, but it is the most common number. It's just kind of like the default. Like, it's pretty good, you know, like, it's just slightly above average.
[23:12] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[23:13] Tara Bansal: So, well, jumping now back into the class, because then we would all. If we were doing the class, this is exactly what we would do. We would spend generally almost half the time talking about the exercises, what people. People's takeaway were, or their struggles. And then I have new information. I mean, part of this next phase is most people leave their more nine to five professional job. And I keep saying. I feel like I keep saying this. The importance for the next phase to me is just more freedom and flexibility, but yet still making a contribution. And it's choosing how you want to contribute. So that can be volunteering, that can be still a paying job, but maybe it's consulting where you just have the flexibility or just doing something totally new. Yeah. A big part of that is, you know, it shouldn't be like, am I contributing or not contributing? I think of it more on how much do you want that to be part of your ideal week or ideal day? And I want to say contributing to your family is part of this. Right. As long as you feel like it's giving you that satisfaction. That's what's most important. I just heard this on a podcast that it was around money, but you can get paid for what you do or you can get paid for what you know. And I feel like as we age, a little bit of, like, how to leverage our experiences and this wealth of knowledge that you've accumulated over these decades in different ways, either. Yeah, I mean, through volunteering or through mentoring or teaching. Teaching, yeah, there's lots of different ways. And to think about that, I guess it doesn't all have to be as stressful and busy.
[25:38] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I know. My son Jimmy, he's still in college, but he had to take accounting. It was a required class for his major. And his accounting professor is a retired CPA. And that's the only thing. He teaches one class, it's an 08:00 a.m., Monday, Wednesday, Friday, which wouldn't be my choice. But, you know, he does it. I'm sure he gets up, goes to class like it. Yeah, it gives him, like, structure, probably to his days. In terms of that. He gets up and out and it lets him teach, you know, like share his knowledge and, I mean, I'm sure he gets paid for it, although I can't imagine he gets paid that much. That it one class. But yeah, I thought that that was an interesting. If you are a certified professional, there's probably options out there for you to do things like that and.
[26:35] Tara Bansal: Or just mentoring someone or somewhere.
[26:38] Christina Donovan: Tutoring. Yeah.
[26:41] Tara Bansal: And then the slides in the class go into ikigai, which I love this idea. It's in the blue zones. I feel like it's become pretty popular. And there's a beautiful diagram of where what you love overlaps with what the world needs, overlaps with what you can be paid for, overlaps with what you are good at. And that's like, in the middle of those four circles is called icky guy. And if you have the freedom not to need to make money, that can open up more options and different things. But the idea behind ikigai is the reason you get out of bed in the morning. And people who live longer with longevity and a high quality of life, they have found they have this ikigai. Right. The meaning for why they get out of bed in the morning. And it's related to that contribution. So I brought that up in the class just to get people to think of ways they may enjoy giving back or using their knowledge and think of that. Just as you were saying, tina, with.
[28:07] Christina Donovan: I loved that diagram. And it's definitely. I'm sure it will be in the show notes. It's definitely worth looking at. Or, I mean, I'm sure you could even google it to see it.
[28:17] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[28:17] Christina Donovan: One of the things that I really liked about it is it gives feelings that you can have. Like, it talks about feeling satisfied, but I can't remember exactly. I don't have it.
[28:32] Tara Bansal: Feeling of uselessness. So, like maybe something you love, but it's like more almost hedonistic. Right. There's not. You don't feel like, useless.
[28:44] Christina Donovan: And the one below that one is.
[28:48] Tara Bansal: Kind of comfortable, but feeling of emptiness. Right.
[28:52] Christina Donovan: Like, in other words, like, your days are fine, you don't feel like you can really complain, but there is. There's an emptiness or a loss of something, which I think is really. I think it does a good job kind of highlighting that and showing ways to maybe try to fix that.
[29:11] Tara Bansal: Another one was excitement and a complete complacency, but a sense of uncertainty.
[29:18] Christina Donovan: Right. And then the top one was like.
[29:20] Tara Bansal: Delight, which delight and fullness, but no wealthy.
[29:24] Christina Donovan: So it kind of has all the different. But I like the words that it uses to describe those feelings.
[29:32] Tara Bansal: Yep, it is. It's a really powerful. There's a whole book on it. If you're. It's a pretty small book, but I did read it many years ago around this concept, and then I talked about the deathbed test. So this is from the book the power of meaning by Emily E. Smith. And I just love the questions that she asks. And some of these Tina and I have used, but many. What have you done or not done in your life? What would you like to do that you haven't done yet? What's getting in the way. Right. If there is something that you know you want to do and even just recognizing it, like, Tina, for you right now, the time. Right. Like, one of our friends when their kids got older, and I felt like there was some, I don't know, financial pressures or whatever, but there was a debate, does she go back to work then? And I'll never forget, she was like, we're almost at the finish line. I want to get my kids fully across. Like, I just love how meaningful that was to her. And she's like, I don't want to screw it up now. Like, I've already dedicated.
[30:55] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[30:56] Tara Bansal: So much time and effort and sacrifices for, like.
[31:00] Christina Donovan: Yeah, yeah.
[31:01] Tara Bansal: For a couple of years. Like, can we make it to there? And I just. I'll always. I just love her. Like, we're almost at the finish line. I want to make sure everybody.
[31:12] Christina Donovan: Yeah. So as we talked about those questions, we've asked other people and have been sort of. We've gone back and forth on in different episodes, but for some reason, when you see them with the words deathbed, it puts it for me in, like, a completely different perspective. I mean, I found that slide super eye opening. And the idea that, you know, really, this is the time to ask these questions now, not 20 years on your deathbed.
[31:48] Tara Bansal: Right.
[31:49] Christina Donovan: Like, and it can be. It's a little overwhelming, and it can be kind of depressing. I mean, I think you really need to go into it with a gentle, gentle, productive help. This is going to be helpful. Not remind me of my shortcomings and the things that I haven't been able to do. Yeah.
[32:14] Tara Bansal: Or pressure or anything. I want it to feel. Or helpful. Yeah. And not judgy or critical. Right. It's not helpful to beat yourself up over, like, oh, if only I had, or whatever. It's no, like, in a positive way. Small shifts or changes that can help just make you think about it and. Yeah, I agree. The next for the class is to the people, where are you getting stuck? What are you struggling with? What can help you move forward? I mean, Tina, would you, I think some people say finances, right? Like they don't know what they can do financially. And so that's part of generally the next class is trying to look at your finances so you have a better gauge of what's possible or not possible and how to include that variable in this. I just feel like a lot of times it's either lack of imagination, like, people don't, they're just, they stay in their comfort zone, I guess is the biggest thing and don't really think much more is possible. But from my perspective, if you retire at 60 or even 65, you still have a, I mean, hopefully at least a decade or a few decades left. I mean, and so when you think of it like that, I mean, think of you worked a long time. I don't know. I think people just kind of feel like this last phase, you're done and. Right.
[34:14] Christina Donovan: There's not enough time to start something new or, and that's partly how Kellie Walenciak was so inspirational because she had so many things that she was like, ready to embark on and. Yeah. And I do think that some of that energy is contagious when you hear other people talk about things they want to do. And I think it can help you realize, yeah, I do have time. This isn't the end, you know, it's definitely. But it does take some planning and.
[34:51] Tara Bansal: Taking some risks and some forethought and, yeah, trial and error, all of that. Anything you feel like you're getting stuck with?
[35:00] Christina Donovan: Well, the one thing I was going to say is actually in regards to Matt, my husband, because there's been a lot of changes at his company and I think everybody knows he's been unhappy with his job. And he's kind of, we started talking more about retirement. It was actually after, I think, our podcast, the episode we did with the first part of this class, he and I just casually started discussing retirement and our ideas around it. And I think he has seemed so much better with his job, but I think having specific things that he can see and that he knows he is going to be working towards have really helped him mentally. I think it's not just, oh, hopefully, I only have to work two more years. It's this idea that, I mean, Beth said in her episode, working towards something, if I work these two years, then I can look forward to, and it's just not this blank slate or this empty chasm of space. It's you know, we could do this or we could do this, and I think that I could be wrong, but it has seemed to help him mentally kind of deal with his job and kind of this time right now, I.
[36:26] Tara Bansal: Think part of it is the planning and thinking about it and hopefully getting excited about it, and maybe what can we start doing now towards that? That's part of what I hope this podcast is getting people to think about. But I also know with a lot of clients, once they've decided or know their end date, that gives them freedom, or it makes it not feel like this endless. I don't know when and how long I have to keep going. And that's part of, for me, with the financial plan, like, if you know how much you need, it makes it easier and more comfortable to be, like, I can step away. And even that clients who I've like, you can leave now, that gives them this freedom of, like, if it's that bad, I know I can walk away and I'm gonna be okay. Just shifts, I think, and gives hope in different ways. Theres almost like this light at the end of the tunnel that, you know, youre going towards and it has more definite time period, I think you dont.
[37:49] Christina Donovan: Want to call it a distraction, but it gives you something to think about besides your day to day routine. And, you know, because he even said, when we were talking about it, we talked about it, and then a week or two went by and then we talked about it again. And he even volunteered, like, maybe I would work longer if circumstances were like this. And the idea that he would stay longer at his job by choice, I'd never heard him say ever in the last five years. So, yeah, I was. I guess I've been pleasantly surprised how even just talking about it has seemed.
[38:35] Tara Bansal: To help and seemed to help almost in like, opening up like that, making.
[38:42] Christina Donovan: Him feel less unstuck. I guess that's what we were talking about when having options. Yeah, but also, no, it's not even just having options. I think it's this idea of starting to think about what's next and what I want and what he wants and to feel like. Yeah. Like, it's just not this. It's not that the light is at the end of the tunnel, it's just that, yeah. Knowing there's something out beyond the tunnel that he's in, you know, and that the closer he gets, I think the more excited he will be, you know?
[39:17] Tara Bansal: Yeah, that's great. The home play for the second class is to journal some more about your ideal day or your vision for this next phase, like, what's important to you. And this is where our episode with Beth Nemeth, she knew clearly her values and how those values are going to be in her day to day may change, but I just feel like the analogy of put the big rocks in first, and if you know what those are, it makes things a lot easier and shaping or finding your structure for your next phase. And this is a coaching exercise that I've always enjoyed, but. And people do it different ways. Mine is 30 things you want to have. So, like, actual physical things, 30 things you want to do. Like, this can be, you know, I don't know, hike to the top of Mount Everest or, you know, it's like actual things, activities you want to do and 30 things you want to be. That, to me, is hard, but it gets you thinking in different ways. Instead of just like a good mother or a good friend. Right.
[40:38] Christina Donovan: To come up with 30, they have to be pretty specific.
[40:41] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And that's the challenge. And a lot of times when in the class, I would say, do this in multiple sittings. Right. Like, it's kind of an ongoing list. But the point is to really get you to dig deep and think. And like I said, use your imagination. I feel like we limit ourselves so much and to really, what are some of those dreams that you buried or didn't think were possible? And just because you're putting it on this list doesn't mean you have to do it. But it just, I think, opens up that space, too. And then the last is to journal about the deathbed questions that were from that book and the book she was a hospice nurse, and all that she had learned from doing that. I feel like she did it for 15 years or I can't remember, but for a long time. And just what kept coming up, the themes. And people say, you know, they don't say they wish they had worked longer, you know, like, that's definitely true. It's more around relationships and kindness and contributing to those around them. So that's the homework, and I hope we would love to hear what people think. I hope this is worth people's time and that you're sharing it with some people that, you know, that are contemplating or thinking about their next phase and those that are in messy middle essence, like us. Anything else? Teen?
[42:31] Christina Donovan: The only other thing you always ask that, and I always have something, which.
[42:35] Tara Bansal: Is why I ask it, because I feel like that's almost always the best part.
[42:40] Christina Donovan: At the end of your class, you cite two books as resources or references. One is a Martha Beck book, finding your own North Star, and the other is Mitch Anthony, the new retirementality. Do you want to spend just a couple of seconds talking about them?
[42:59] Tara Bansal: Sure. I'm currently going through Martha Beck's life coaching program and the finding your own North Star is a really great book. She gives you exercises to help you try to figure out what you want to do and how to navigate that. I highly recommend that book. And the other book, which isn't on this list is the designing your life. I've talked about that. I think I didn't find that book designing your life until after this course was done. And Mitch Anthony's the new retirementality is really good in just like trying to reframe how we think of retirement and to view it in a different way that culturally it brings all this baggage and expectations and how much has changed, I think, since most of us were sold what retirement is or should look like. And he has financial exercises. He has lots of also different things that some I pulled into this course, but the book talks a lot more about it in detail and all of.
[44:25] Christina Donovan: Those resources will be in the show notes. Yep.
[44:30] Tara Bansal: All right, hope you have a great day and Tina and I will talk to you again soon.
[44:34] Christina Donovan: Thank you everyone.
[44:36] Tara Bansal: Today's quote is from Mark Twain. “20 years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the things you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore Dream. Discover. “
For show notes and other information about our podcast, please go to our website, messymiddlescence.com. If you enjoyed listening, please share with others and come back for more.
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Princeton Adult School Classes and Information
The New Retirementality: Planning Your Life and Living Your Dreams…at Any Age You Want by Mitch Anthony
The Happiness Equation by Neil Pasricha
Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived Joyful Life by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans
Class 2 Timeless Happiness Slides
Link to pdf of Timeless Happiness Class 2 Homeplay
Ikigai: The Japanese Secret to a Long and Happy Life by Héctor García (Author), Francesc Miralles
The Power of Meaning: Finding Fulfillment in a World Obsessed with Happiness by Emily Esfahani Smith
Finding your Own North Star: Claiming the Life You Were Meant to Live by Martha Beck
“The Biggest Surprises in Retirement” by Glenn Ruffenach in The Wall Street Journal