42. Friendship: Holding On and Reaching Out
“There’s a time investment in the friendship, in order to have that comfort and depth.”
What comes to mind when you think of friendship?
Has your definition of a good friend changed as you’ve gotten older?
Do different friendships meet different needs?
These are some of the questions sisters Tara and Tina explore in this episode of Messy Middlescence.
More and more research reminds us how vital friendships and social connections are as we age. But how we experience friendship — and what we need from it — shifts over time. Each of us brings our own mix of circumstances, energy, and values to the relationships that sustain us.
Tara and Tina open this season’s theme of Friendship and Connection by sharing their own stories and reflections:
what friendship looks like now, what makes it hard, and why it’s worth the effort.
It’s a thoughtful conversation about the comfort of being known, the vulnerability of reaching out, and the small, steady ways we can keep our friendships — and ourselves — growing.
Episode Highlights
The difference between being friendly and being friends
How a small gesture — a phone number, a walk, a random “yes” — can blossom into a lasting bond
Why time and shared routines help deepen friendships
The quiet value of casual, everyday connections
The rarity (and joy) of finding true couple friendships
The ongoing challenge of finding time to nurture our relationships
The guilt or sadness that can come from feeling there’s no bandwidth for new friends
Using walks or movement to keep friendships as healthy as our bodies
How social media shapes connection differently across generations
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[00:22] Christina Donovan: Welcome to Messy Middlescence.
[00:24] This is a podcast where we talk honestly about the changes to challenges, connections, and gifts that come with midlife.
[00:32] Nothing too polished, just real conversations that remind us we're not alone.
[00:37] So let's dive in.
[00:39] This is Christina Ortina Conti Donovan, and I am here with my sister, Tara Conti Bansal.
[00:47] And today on Messy Middlescence, we're jumping right into our theme, theme for season three of Friendship and Connection.
[00:59] And we thought today we would spend a few minutes talking about the layers and the types of friendships that you have all throughout life, but primarily right now at this stage of life,
[01:15] and kind of go back and forth on some questions and thoughts about that.
[01:21] Yep.
[01:23] Tara Bansal: So, Tina, when you think of the word friendship during this stage, what comes to mind?
[01:31] Christina Donovan: I mean, definitely people,
[01:34] I think,
[01:36] because of where we are in our lives. You have friends that live close and friends that do not live close,
[01:45] and I don't know, the friends that geographically live down the street or, you know, a couple blocks away. Like I think of, in terms of when I think of those friendships, those are friendships that I do things with.
[02:00] I do. Those are the people I do things with, you know, I see regularly. And it's dinners or walks or social events or parties. And then I also think the people that I don't see regularly but who I am close to,
[02:17] I don't want to say I think of them as emotional support because the people I see regularly are emotional support, too. But I tend to talk to them when there's a problem or I'm missing them or I need a more stronger emotional connection, if that makes sense.
[02:36] Because my history with them is longer, I guess, is how I would say it.
[02:41] Tara Bansal: My impression is that that group of people who are not near you are more intentional about reaching out when.
[02:50] Christina Donovan: Yeah. And there's more of maybe an emotional connection that I look for there.
[02:56] Tara Bansal: That's deeper.
[02:57] Christina Donovan: That's deeper, yes. I mean, I don't mean to say I don't get emotional support from the people that I see you see more regularly.
[03:03] Tara Bansal: Yeah, yeah.
[03:04] Christina Donovan: I do think that when I think of them, I think of.
[03:08] Mostly because I think of talking on the phone, you know,
[03:13] and we're at a point in our lives where we don't necessarily talk on the phone to update on the day to day stuff. It tends to be bigger, heavier stuff that we're.
[03:24] We're reaching out to each other for, if that makes sense. Yeah.
[03:28] Tara Bansal: And is that, I feel like I think of your college group and your people from that. Is that who you think of or.
[03:36] Christina Donovan: Yeah, mostly. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so.
[03:40] Tara Bansal: And you guys get together?
[03:43] Christina Donovan: We try for once a year.
[03:45] Yeah. And that.
[03:47] But I do see, and I mean I see some of those friends more than others just because either they're in the area more or I don't know. Yeah, there are some that I see more frequently than once a year, but as a group we try to get together once a year.
[04:04] Tara Bansal: Just curious,
[04:06] do you think it's because they've known you for so long and been through so much or like the article,
[04:15] we'll put a link in the show notes of just that those friendships developed when you had so much more time to spend together.
[04:27] Christina Donovan: I think it's a combination.
[04:31] I think that those friends have seen me through all the different phases of my life, so I think they have a knowledge,
[04:40] a full comprehensive knowledge of me that I don't need to explain a lot to them. Yeah,
[04:48] they know everybody in my life in terms of my other social contacts, either by name or. Because in the course of our years together they've met them.
[04:57] Um, and yeah, I guess there's.
[05:02] And maybe some of it too. I, I don't know, I'm just kind of thinking off of the top of my head. But you almost know what kind of.
[05:11] Having been through all these different situations in life with these people, you almost know what kind of response you're going to get. You know, it's.
[05:22] Tara Bansal: And in that way, I think sometimes we turn to certain friends for the response we're looking for or what we're like.
[05:29] Christina Donovan: I know they're going to comfort me. I know they're going to say the right thing. I know I don't have to be embarrassed to cry in front of them. Like,
[05:37] I'm not sure. Yeah, I may not be explaining it well, but yeah, there's almost the,
[05:44] the knowledge of,
[05:46] of knowing how they're going to react is. It's the comfort in itself, you know.
[05:51] Tara Bansal: And for me, I also think,
[05:55] I don't want to put words in your mouth, but there's like the security of,
[06:03] I don't know, you can't like say the wrong thing,
[06:06] which maybe that's not true because I do think there are some long time friendships that suddenly don't, you know,
[06:13] and I shouldn't say that, but I think of like Nimit and I have a group of high school friends that when we get together it just feels so comfortable and freeing and like, yeah, there's inside jokes.
[06:31] Christina Donovan: You're not worried about any type of social blunder or offense or impression or anything like that. Right. You're not trying to impress anybody with those people or. I don't know. Yeah, it's.
[06:48] I don't know. I mean,
[06:50] I kind of went on and on. But when you think of the word friendship, what do you think of?
[06:55] Tara Bansal: I think of people, I think of relationships. I.
[07:02] I think there's different kinds of friends,
[07:04] you know, like. Like you even said, like, there's those friends that you do things with,
[07:10] and then there's those that you can depend on or pick up the phone to vent. And I think of at pickup, you know, I now no longer have pickup at the elementary school, but there was a group of women that we would stand there and we would talk briefly.
[07:31] You know, there it was probably less than five minutes, but yet we would touch base, and we had that. So we saw each other every day for a few minutes and.
[07:44] Christina Donovan: And yet.
[07:45] Tara Bansal: Then there's, like, friends from high school that I don't talk to for months at a time, but I do feel like if I pick up the phone.
[07:56] Christina Donovan: There’s an instant connection, like, yeah, it doesn't matter that you haven't talked in months.
[08:03] Tara Bansal: And they don't even know exactly what's happening in my life necessarily at this moment, because months have gone by or whatever. But it still feels,
[08:13] to your point, like, deeper and more comfortable than these smaller interactions.
[08:25] So there's friends and then there's, like, really good friends.
[08:29] Christina Donovan: And I have.
[08:33] Tara Bansal: I feel like I'm lucky enough now that I do have a few women,
[08:39] you know, really good friends who are nearby.
[08:43] And I don't. I'm not like you.
[08:46] I don't have good friends that I've stayed in touch with since college.
[08:51] And I.
[08:52] Christina Donovan: But you have that high school group, which.
[08:54] Tara Bansal: Yeah, I do have that high school.
[08:55] Christina Donovan: Group the same way. Yeah. Although that's couples. Whereas mine. Yeah, like.
[09:03] Tara Bansal: And that brings up another whole thing of, like.
[09:06] I think having couple friends are really fun,
[09:10] but rare.
[09:14] I feel like Nimit and I, the only.
[09:18] Well, I shouldn't say that we don't have many couple friends, because I feel like usually there's one that connects and the other doesn't, and it's harder.
[09:28] So there's the couple friends and then there's, like, the individual friends,
[09:33] um, from, you know, like, I have my mom friends that are local, and then the friends from, like,
[09:40] when I went through my divorce and, you know, helped see me through that.
[09:45] And then there's the friends from high school.
[09:48] But, yeah, those are, like, the different groups that I think of.
[09:53] Christina Donovan: And.
[09:54] Tara Bansal: And I Also think of, like,
[09:56] our family,
[09:57] you know, like, Tina, you're one of my best friends,
[10:00] and yet you're part of the family too, so. And I know.
[10:04] Christina Donovan: Yeah. And that's special unto itself.
[10:07] Tara Bansal: That's. Yeah.
[10:09] Christina Donovan: That if you are lucky enough to have a sibling that you feel is a best friend. Yeah. Yeah.
[10:17] Tara Bansal: But I feel like we. I mean, besides my immediate, you know, like Nimit and my boys, like, I talk to you probably more than anyone else. Yeah.
[10:29] Christina Donovan: I would say, at least on a regular basis. Yeah.
[10:32] Tara Bansal: On a more, you know, I would.
[10:34] Christina Donovan: Say that that's true.
[10:37] I do think as you get older,
[10:40] it helps when you have friends that are in a group and it's just.
[10:50] I think a lot of it just becomes.
[10:55] If you can't go, but the group still gets together, like, it keeps perpetuating itself, I guess.
[11:03] I mean, I know for us here on the Hill, I have.
[11:06] I would call. We have two other couples that we are.
[11:10] As you said, it's unusual that the six of us are very compatible and the women are very close and the men are close, and it's very, very nice.
[11:21] But I think some of that is because we are a group. You know what I mean? And I don't mean to say that it's harder when you have a friend that's not connected and you.
[11:34] It takes more time, it takes more effort. And I think that those you're in, like,
[11:39] those are friends that are easier to lose, unfortunately.
[11:43] Yeah.
[11:43] Tara Bansal: Because when the group changes or like, I think that is very true with a divorce or with that a lot of times,
[11:53] and. And even just thinking through that, like,
[11:57] the group of high school friends,
[12:00] I look forward to seeing them,
[12:03] but.
[12:04] And I think Nimit's different, but, like,
[12:08] I feel like they have gone through. They're gone through some stuff, and I don't feel like I'm one they would reach out to or I would reach out to them during,
[12:21] like, really hard times.
[12:22] And so it's just a different dynamic.
[12:25] Christina Donovan: Yeah. I know in reading some articles just about this topic, I mean, one of the differentiations we came across was you have people you are friends with and people you are friendly with,
[12:41] which I think is like you were saying, the.
[12:45] The women that you saw at pickup and drop off, like, they're obviously women you were friendly with. And those connections are just as important,
[12:55] I feel like, as your, you know,
[13:00] good friends. The deep.
[13:02] The people that.
[13:03] Tara Bansal: And I think from what I've read too,
[13:06] that people kind of diminish those.
[13:09] And yet they're more important than I think we often give them credit for.
[13:16] And I also think of,
[13:19] like, from last season with people going through grief and hard times that many people talked about, that people surprised them, that they thought of them as friendly, but they, like, really stepped up in ways that they hadn't expected and showing caring and as being, you know.
[13:41] Christina Donovan: Right.
[13:41] I mean, in. In a situation like that, that's very extreme. But sometimes I think that is how new friends develop. You are friendly with somebody, and then you realize that there's more of a connection there.
[13:55] Then. Then you might have thought that the casual connection is something either that becomes stronger or.
[14:02] Tara Bansal: But I think often in friendship,
[14:07] like, in that example, it's somebody putting themselves out,
[14:11] like, being vulnerable. I don't know why this.
[14:14] I remember.
[14:15] So we.
[14:17] We moved to Pittsburgh. I was a freshman and Tina was a junior.
[14:22] And I remember there was this one young woman that I so wanted to be friends with,
[14:29] and, like,
[14:31] it just didn't happen.
[14:33] And, like, I always wonder one, why I wanted to be friends with her so much.
[14:39] And part of it was, like, she wasn't the most popular person or anything like that, But I felt, like, this interest and.
[14:48] And obviously, I did make friends that I still have to this day.
[14:53] But it's just funny, like, I still, like, feel that rejection of something I wanted, and it wasn't right.
[15:00] Christina Donovan: Yeah,
[15:01] I know when we first moved to this community college hill, I mean,
[15:07] it took a long time for me to have close friends.
[15:13] I feel like I knew I met people because of the ages that my kids were, and we would go to parties and. I mean, I definitely had social connections and had a lot of people I was friendly, friendly with, friendly.
[15:28] But for me, like, my core group started when we.
[15:36] It was. I think back on it now. It was just the most random thing that one of the women asked if we'd be interested in biking once a week,
[15:46] and two of us said yes,
[15:48] and then a third one ended up saying yes. And,
[15:52] I mean, we biked together once a week through the fall and spring,
[15:57] basically from when our kids started elementary school to when we kept trying to do it. But it got harder and harder.
[16:04] But it was the idea that I saw these women regularly, regularly, and we were doing an activity where we could just talk and unload and vent and.
[16:17] And that is what became kind of my.
[16:20] I call them kind of my closest women friends here on the hill to this day.
[16:27] But it took a while. I mean, we'd probably lived here six or seven years before.
[16:33] You know, I had what I would call friends that I Could call in and you know,
[16:39] no matter what the situation, if I needed something, I could depend on them. And.
[16:44] Yeah, so, I mean, I guess too sometimes it takes a long time to find new friends of that level.
[16:53] Yeah.
[16:53] Tara Bansal: And I do think a lot of this is pointing to, like, there's a time investment in the friendship in order to like have that comfort and depth.
[17:06] Christina Donovan: And I mean, we no longer, I should add, bike. Every week it became too hard.
[17:14] Both two of the women went back to work.
[17:16] And it was funny, as our kids got older, it became harder to find because the biking. We ended up driving somewhere unloading our bikes. But like, it was not,
[17:27] you know, an hour here, but we still walk.
[17:30] We try to walk regularly once or twice a week.
[17:33] And that too, I think it's kind of guaranteed time with them that has helped sustain that friendship and deepen it.
[17:45] Yeah.
[17:46] Tara Bansal: And my,
[17:46] my core group here are all moms,
[17:52] pretty much of.
[17:55] They're all moms from Nathan's grade and that.
[18:00] It's like, I just,
[18:02] wow.
[18:03] It's just funny to me that I don't have anyone from Alex's grade.
[18:09] And they.
[18:12] I, I do think it's a special group of women.
[18:15] And one of them, you know, she's my best friend, but I still remember it was that like kindergarten orientation and you went one on one and I met her and, and it was so unlike me, but I was like, I want your phone.
[18:38] Christina Donovan: It's just.
[18:39] Tara Bansal: Because that was so not me. It just cracks me up that. Yeah.
[18:45] Christina Donovan: And sometimes it's. It's funny how these random connections can really turn into like. I think back all the time.
[18:54] Tara Bansal: About.
[18:55] Christina Donovan: It's a woman, her name is Tara, you know, asking us if we wanted to bike. She actually wanted us to do like a bike was an organized bike tour, like with,
[19:05] with Genesis bicycles, which is.
[19:08] And one of the other women was like, well, I don't want to do that, but I'd be happy to go on a bike ride. And you know, it sort of.
[19:17] It was, it was a very random thing, but it had very long term consequences. And same thing, just like that. One question of asking for a phone number,
[19:27] you know,
[19:28] look at what developed. And I think it's a reminder that you never know.
[19:34] Tara Bansal: Yeah, it's true. You don't ever know. And I feel like that friendship grew because of our kids being friends and now our kids aren't. Some of them are, but some of them are not at all.
[19:48] Christina Donovan: And.
[19:49] Tara Bansal: But that was part of my concern was like, if our kids aren't friends, can we still be friends. And making the effort for that was one of the things.
[20:00] So for that core biking group, is that the same as the couples groups or. No, it is.
[20:05] Christina Donovan: It is. Okay. And it's just kind of funny how that developed. Yeah. And because of where we live, I mean, we have. We're part of a larger social group.
[20:15] Yeah. I think all of us kind of refer to each other as our core group because the women see each other more regularly than the men.
[20:24] Because we walk once or twice a week.
[20:27] But yeah.
[20:29] Tara Bansal: And that's what my friends do is like generally we try to walk not every week, but like every other week.
[20:40] And it's kind of who can do it shows up. It's not that big a group,
[20:45] but it's not like we go to coffee, we can't really go to dinner because of kids and stuff like that.
[20:53] But.
[20:54] And I feel like even when we try to get together for dinner, it feels so hard between kids, activities and work or husbands, not being home or whatever.
[21:08] It really is challenging.
[21:11] Christina Donovan: Yeah. I say this a lot, but I look back on when my children were young and maybe because you're doing activities with your kids, are doing activities where you see parents that you're friendly with and then friends with.
[21:27] But it seems,
[21:29] I thought by this point where a lot of us are empty nesters, it would be easier to see people. And it really.
[21:38] And maybe it's a temporary thing, but it seems like it's harder and it keeps getting harder. Like my core group, we tried to get together for dinner, the three couples,
[21:48] a couple times a year, like usually once a quarter. And we were saying, I don't think it was since last Christmas that the six of us,
[21:56] like we just got together this past Saturday and we just had a really hard time finding a date where we were all together or all here present able to go.
[22:09] Tara Bansal: Yeah. And what are people doing? Because I feel like I do expect,
[22:14] like when we don't have kids, activities and things like that, that we would be able to do it more easily.
[22:20] So in a way, it's a little depressing to hear that.
[22:23] Christina Donovan: Yeah. I mean, I do think one thing that has happened, and I know this with other friends too,
[22:29] when you lose one parent,
[22:32] a lot of times you become,
[22:36] I don't want to say the social life for the other parent, but you end up spending more time maybe with the other parent and feel a responsibility too. Right. That on a Friday or Saturday night you go to dinner with them or you spend the day with them.
[22:52] Um, I've seen that I Have multiple people.
[22:55] And I also think, you know, you think your kids are in college. I know some people, their kids are in sports.
[23:03] Tara Bansal: They want to go see them.
[23:04] Christina Donovan: And I think that's the other is.
[23:06] Tara Bansal: You don't have flexibility. Like when they can come home, you want to see them or.
[23:11] Christina Donovan: Right. And even just, you know, dropping off and taking to college is.
[23:18] That's on weekend. You know, usually it's not.
[23:22] I don't know. Yeah, there's all these things and then, I mean, more people.
[23:26] I know a lot of women that have gone back to work that their weekends now are busier because they're busy during the week.
[23:36] Yeah. That they don't have time for during the week. So. Yeah, I do think it's a mix of things, but it still surprises me that it's.
[23:44] Tara Bansal: It's challenging.
[23:45] Christina Donovan: I have a. One of my friends,
[23:49] we've only saw each other once over the summer and then like we're trying to get together for dinner and we ended up picking a weekday like a month away. That was like the best we could do.
[24:01] Which was frightening to me that,
[24:04] you know, at this point in our lives, we're still that schedule.
[24:07] Yeah.
[24:09] Tara Bansal: That to me is surprising because I feel like from my perspective, so much of it is driving to kids activities and all these still kid focused obligations that we have that get in the way because that's just what, you know, when we put an invitation out, sorry, gotta drive, gotta pick up,
[24:32] gotta, you know.
[24:33] Christina Donovan: Right.
[24:33] Tara Bansal: Of these things happening. Would you say your definition of a good friend has changed as you've aged?
[24:43] Christina Donovan: Yes and no.
[24:46] I think a definition of a good friend is sort of universal. You know, like that itself hasn't changed.
[24:55] But at the same time, people that I consider.
[24:59] Yeah. I don't know.
[25:01] Tara Bansal: How would you define it? Like when you say it's universal.
[25:04] Christina Donovan: What I think there are people that you connect with,
[25:08] people that you can rely on,
[25:11] people you have fun with.
[25:15] I mean, I think those are the primary.
[25:18] I don't know how would you define that?
[25:20] Tara Bansal: All of what you said. I think part of. And we sent it earlier. But like that you can be open and vulnerable and share things that you may not share with other people.
[25:40] And you said depend on. But like who.
[25:44] Who would you call?
[25:46] Like in an emergency. Right. That you know would be there for you.
[25:52] So I think that's the other.
[25:56] So even in that, like there's different people for different things.
[26:00] Christina Donovan: Right.
[26:00] Tara Bansal: But they're still good friends.
[26:03] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[26:05] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[26:05] Christina Donovan: I also think as you age.
[26:10] I don't know how to describe this, exactly. But I don't know, I feel like people become more accepting maybe of others and people that you wouldn't necessarily have considered a friend when you were younger,
[26:29] you're more willing to see differently.
[26:32] I don't know. I think you're open to more different types of connections as you age.
[26:36] Tara Bansal: As you age. Yeah.
[26:37] Christina Donovan: Or at least I hope you are. Yeah.
[26:41] Tara Bansal: Because what comes up for me is,
[26:43] I don't know what the quote is, but that you shouldn't, like, depend on your significant other to satisfy all your needs.
[26:50] And I think of you have different friends for different aspects of yourself. Right. Like of different interests and different things you want to do and to know,
[27:03] you know, who those people are for those particular needs. Yeah. That you connect with on those.
[27:10] Yeah, that's very well said. Interest.
[27:12] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[27:13] Tara Bansal: With age,
[27:14] we're in some ways more tolerant of people in being different than us.
[27:25] And yet I also think of sometimes less tolerant of just like, I don't need another friend or I'm not taking the time, I don't have the bandwidth to invest in this new relationship.
[27:40] I don't know.
[27:43] I can think of situations of both that are true.
[27:47] Christina Donovan: Yeah, I can too.
[27:48] There's a certain amount,
[27:50] I think of guilt associated with ones that you can think of where I should have reached out or they were looking to be included and it was easier just not to, you know.
[28:06] Yeah,
[28:08] but,
[28:09] yeah, I mean, do you. Are there any friendships that have surprised you in this stage?
[28:16] Tara Bansal: My first reaction was no,
[28:19] but then like, just thinking of, you know, like, I have my mom friends,
[28:26] I have work friends.
[28:28] I have.
[28:30] And so my work friends are different.
[28:36] What comes to mind is, like,
[28:38] some of the very different ages of friends.
[28:44] And I have a dear friend,
[28:46] she's older than me, but I still, like,
[28:51] consider her a dear good friend. And then I have, you know,
[28:57] our kids are the same age, but she's like 15 years younger than me.
[29:03] Christina Donovan: And you know, like, that's always hard.
[29:05] Tara Bansal: I know, but,
[29:08] but. And just some of the differences with that. Right. Like, of where you come from. And that's like. Because.
[29:18] Because Nimit and I are exactly the same age and. And I feel like you and I are, you know, basically the same age. Like things that happened just like, culturally and historically that the imprints I think just shared of, like the 80s, you know, like, and knowing those inside jokes and the.
[29:43] Christina Donovan: And also social media. I mean, I do feel like people who are younger than us,
[29:49] substantially younger than us,
[29:51] like at least a generation younger,
[29:54] have a different attitude towards social media and understanding of social media than like our generation does. Yeah.
[30:01] Tara Bansal: Because it was new to us and,
[30:03] and even that like we were talking.
[30:07] I was talking to someone like I remember in high school typing our papers and like the agony of when you made a typing mistake and having to like correct it and.
[30:19] And just the changes with computers and with emails and I.
[30:25] Christina Donovan: And even just phone. I mean long distance phone calls were expensive.
[30:28] Tara Bansal: Yes.
[30:30] Christina Donovan: And the idea that now like you could call anybody anytime and it just doesn't cost anything really.
[30:36] Tara Bansal: And text or you know, like video call or, you know, all of these different things and there are so many more ways to connect and yet people talk about.
[30:50] It's not necessarily deeper or making those friendships better, stronger.
[30:55] Christina Donovan: Right. Or making you feel less lonely, you know? Yeah.
[30:59] Tara Bansal: I mean, do you feel like social media or. I don't know if you have a chat group or things like that help keep the.
[31:11] Christina Donovan: No, not really. Amongst I would say my friends.
[31:15] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[31:16] Christina Donovan: I mean still, like I said, the people that.
[31:21] Who live far away, I tend to speak to on the phone. Not that we don't text, but anything of substance. Can you talk?
[31:32] I'm on Facebook and Instagram, but I don't. None of my friends really. Like, I don't really get caught up by thing.
[31:40] Yeah. By people posting things.
[31:43] There's some family that do. But aside from that. Yeah.
[31:47] Tara Bansal: What makes a friendship feel nourishing for you right now?
[31:54] Christina Donovan: I mean, just being with people.
[31:56] Yeah. And I guess some of it is as an empty nester and someone who does not work,
[32:06] do paid work.
[32:09] You know, I,
[32:10] Matt, my husband will come home and he'll be like, who'd you talk to today? And I'll be like the mailman, you know,
[32:17] like you do.
[32:19] You do really start to crave like the social interaction that you took for granted when you saw people. These social, these little social connections that you kind of took for granted when you picked your kids up at school or waited outside the rink for hockey practice or I don't know,
[32:36] like that.
[32:38] Tara Bansal: That's interesting.
[32:39] Christina Donovan: I mean, what are some of the common struggles you feel like in middle age you have with friendships?
[32:46] Tara Bansal: Oh, I mean, it's just not having being able to see the people I want to see or get time with them.
[32:55] Christina Donovan: And.
[32:57] Tara Bansal: It really to me is frustrating.
[33:00] Christina Donovan: Do you worry about losing friendships because of that?
[33:05] Tara Bansal: Hmm,
[33:06] I don't. That's not a worry. Like hearing you say it, I guess I feel like that could happen.
[33:13] But now it's just a source of frustration of like wanting to be able to see and talk to My friends more than I get to.
[33:26] And, and it's.
[33:28] I'm trying to think.
[33:32] Nimit was said to me, he was like, you know, you see your friends all the time. And I'm, I, I was just like, I don't know what planet you live on, but I don't feel like that.
[33:41] Like,
[33:42] he's like, you go for a walk with them every week. And I was like, no, I don't like.
[33:46] And it's just funny, like his impression versus what I feel like, you know, how it feels to me is very different.
[33:57] But yeah, that's like.
[34:00] And I feel like this past year it's gotten even harder for whatever reason. I don't know if it's the age of our kids or it seems like we used to be able to get together more than we are now.
[34:14] Christina Donovan: Yeah, yeah. And I mean, you had mentioned the whole sandwich generation. You know, there's. These are busy years. Yeah.
[34:24] Tara Bansal: And people like you said, taking care of elderly parents or only one parent or.
[34:34] Christina Donovan: And even being an empty. I don't know, I mean, technically, I guess we are empty nesters and a lot of my friends are, but that doesn't mean that their kids are completely.
[34:45] I mean, there's still.
[34:49] Tara Bansal: Coming back and still.
[34:50] Christina Donovan: Yeah. You're still spending time with them or. Yeah.
[34:56] Tara Bansal: And I wonder when that. If it's when your children get married or like start having a family of their own, if that's like when it really feels or if then it becomes focused on that.
[35:16] I'm just, you know.
[35:18] Christina Donovan: You mean in terms of having more time to spend with friends? Yeah, I think it's retirement.
[35:23] Yeah. I mean, think about it. If you didn't have a job,
[35:27] you could do a lot more things with your friends, you know?
[35:30] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[35:31] Christina Donovan: You could schedule stuff during the day or on a weekday night or.
[35:36] I don't know,
[35:38] I think the way our society works, I mean, I know for us, we don't even like to do stuff on Friday nights anymore because you're beat. Yeah, yeah. Like,
[35:49] so it really narrows your availability.
[35:54] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[35:56] Well, I was just thinking, like, with kids coming back and not like being fully launched, I just wondered because it just shows you get less and less time with your kids and I wondered.
[36:10] Christina Donovan: If they live far away. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's true. Well, we will continue to explore some of these questions. Right. Yeah. Throughout.
[36:22] Tara Bansal: And we'd love to hear from you if you have either an article or a book or a question or a topic that you would love to share.
[36:32] Tina and I would love to hear it.
[36:34] And yeah, this is our theme, so we're gonna, you know, not do this every single episode. But we will keep coming back to it.
[36:45] And I don't know, I feel like there's a lot here. We're just, just getting started.
[36:50] Christina Donovan: Yes.
[36:51] Tara Bansal: Hope you're having a good day. Thanks.
[36:54] Okay, your connection challenge for this week is to reach out to someone you miss or haven't talked to in a while.
[37:01] Send a quick text, make the call or set a time to see or talk to them soon.
[37:08] Let them know you're thinking of them and notice how it feels to reconnect.
[37:13] Bonus points if you do it today.
[37:15] If you do it, tell us. We'd love to hear your stories or hear who you reached out to and or how it felt.
[37:23] You can message us or post it as a comment on Messy Middlescence online.
[37:28] Thank you for joining us today on Messy Middlescence.
[37:32] You can always find more about us plus the transcript or show notes at our website,
[37:39] www.messymiddalescence.com.
[37:45] M E S S Y M I D D L E S C ENCE.com and if you liked what you heard, please subscribe or share this episode with a friend.
[37:59] See you next time.
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The Way We Live Now: Friendship Envy — by Ann Patchett, The New York Times (June 29, 2003)
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/29/magazine/the-way-we-live-now-6-29-03-friendship-envy.htmlBig Friendship: How We Keep Each Other Close — Aminatou Sow & Ann Friedman
→ A beautiful exploration of the depth and evolution of women’s friendships, echoing the themes you and Tina shared.The Harvard Study of Adult Development — Harvard Gazette summary on relationships & longevity
→ Highlights research showing that close relationships—not wealth or fame—are what keep people happier and healthier throughout life.
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/04/over-nearly-80-years-harvard-study-has-been-showing-how-to-live-a-healthy-and-happy-life/The Science of Friendship in Midlife — NPR Life Kit episode
→ A short, insightful listen that mirrors your discussion about time, effort, and how friendship changes as we age.
https://www.npr.org/2023/06/12/1181417030/friendship-midlife -
Think of one friend you’d love to reconnect with.
Send a quick note, text, or call — not because you have news, but simply because you care.