39. Chance Encounters and Brave Pivots with Steve Toman
“I never thought I’d be waking up at 4 a.m. to smoke barbecue and loving it—but here I am.”
What happens when the career you’ve built for 30 years suddenly and unexpectedly ends—and you’re not ready to retire?
In this episode of Messy Middlescence, we talk with our longtime friend Steve Toman about the unexpected turns of midlife and what it means to find purpose again. From mortgage banking to EMT training to smoking brisket at 4 a.m., Steve shares how listening to his interests opened up a whole new season of meaning, joy and contribution.
What shines most in this conversation is Steve’s unwavering love and admiration for his wife Kelly, his pride in their three daughters, and his desire to continue contributing—not just to a workplace, but to his community and family. His story is a reminder that the small choices, chance encounters, and brave pivots we make in midlife can have powerful, unexpected, and lasting impact.
Episode Highlights:
Steve shares his winding journey from a global childhood and decades in mortgage banking to a fulfilling and unexpected midlife reinvention.
He opens up about being downsized in his 50s, working through identity loss, and rediscovering purpose as an EMT volunteer and barbecue pitmaster.
His deep love and admiration for his wife Kelly—and the strength of their partnership—shine through as he reflects on navigating life’s many transitions together.
He discusses the emotional realities of retirement planning, letting go as his daughters grow up, and how staying active and engaged helps him feel useful and connected.
Steve emphasizes the importance of both financial preparation and staying open to surprise—how a roadside sign or casual joke can spark a new chapter.
He reflects on the legacy of his parents’ retirement planning and shares the values he hopes to pass on to his daughters.
Travel, service, curiosity, and community emerge as key ingredients in Steve’s “semi-retirement”—a season of contribution, discovery, and unexpected joy.
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[00:22] Tara Bansal: Hi, this is Tara Conti Bansal, and I want to welcome you to season two of our podcast, Messy Middlescence.
[00:30] My sister Christina Conti Donovan and I are in the thick of midlife and trying to help ourselves and others to learn about and hopefully thrive in this unique phase of life.
[00:42] Like adolescence, Middlescence is a time of tremendous change,
[00:47] touching almost every aspects of our lives.
[00:50] There are the physical and hormonal changes,
[00:53] but also many of the rhythms, relationships, and frameworks that have dominated our lives for decades all start to shift in various ways.
[01:03] Tina and I are figuring this out as we go, and we hope you will join us as we dive into and discuss topics and ideas that will help all of us grow and understand this special midlife phase and how to live it better,
[01:17] more meaningfully and joyfully, one day at a time.
[01:22] Christina Donovan: Welcome to Messy Middlescence. This is Christina Conti Donovan, and I am here with my sister, Tara Conti Bansal.
[01:30] We are super excited to speak with Steve Thoman. Steve and his wife Kelly are two of my husband Matt and my oldest friends.
[01:40] And part of the reason we are so excited to speak with Steve is because of several significant changes in his work.
[01:48] In the course of so many of our interviews here on Messy Middlescence, we hear over and over how people are not ready to stop working.
[01:57] They say they just want to do something different.
[02:00] Sometimes they say, I'm not ready to retire. I just want to try something less stressful or more meaningful.
[02:09] And when Matt and I caught up with Kelly and Steve this past Thanksgiving, listening to Steve describe his career changes and evolution,
[02:17] I was struck by how he had done what we hear so many people our age want to do.
[02:23] And I hoped very much to get Steve onto Messy Medalescence to speak with us about his work changes. So welcome, Steve.
[02:33] Steve Toman: Thank you.
[02:34] Christina Donovan: Truly appreciate you taking the time to talk with us today.
[02:38] I didn't give much background on you and Kelly because we usually like our guests to tell their own story.
[02:47] So can we start off by having you describe a little bit more about yourself? Your childhood, where you grew up, your family,
[02:56] kind of what's gotten you to where we are today?
[03:00] Steve Toman: Sure, sure. Absolutely.
[03:03] Yeah. Childhood was a lot of fun for me growing up. My parents,
[03:10] they.
[03:12] They married and we're living in the States,
[03:17] and basically they had adopted my sister and I,
[03:22] and we were there probably till about age 4 or 5. And then they. My dad got an opportunity to work overseas with an oil company.
[03:29] So we transferred overseas and for the next seven years we lived in Saudi Arabia,
[03:35] bouncing between A couple of different American camps within the country.
[03:41] And it was a wonderful experience growing up as a kid, all sorts of adventures.
[03:45] One of the things I distinctly remember is that it was always cheaper to go to Europe for vacation than to fly back to the US So we tended to spend a lot of time in my childhood in Europe.
[03:57] And my parents favorite thing to do was to camp. So it was always renting a Volkswagen Bug camper and the four of us would traipse around some country for two weeks,
[04:08] you know, hopping in and out of campgrounds and going up and down, you know, scary mountain passes. And it was a lot of fun as a kid.
[04:17] During the eighth year, we moved to Beirut, Lebanon and spent about a year there right before their civil war started.
[04:24] And that's when we bugged out and moved back to Arabia.
[04:28] And it was about this time that school wise, we kind of kids age out of the school systems that were offered overseas. You could only go up through eighth grade and once you hit eighth grade you had basically the only choice was to either leave the country altogether or to go to a private school.
[04:49] So my, my parents opted to not send us to private school and opted to just take my sister and I, who is my only sibling, she's three years younger than I am,
[04:59] back to the U.S. so we were now back in the U.S.
[05:02] where we were, you know, we were, were there for basically 8th and 9th grade is when, when we were there. And then subsequently my dad got another offer to work for another oil company in,
[05:16] in the Netherlands.
[05:17] So we moved to the Netherlands my June, my sophomore year, sorry of high school. So I went to three different high schools my freshman year in Mendham, New Jersey,
[05:30] and which is where we had moved back to once we came back from Arabia,
[05:34] then two years in the Netherlands and then back to New Jersey for my senior year.
[05:40] So that part of it wasn't, you know, fun switching schools so many times. But again,
[05:46] being on the international scene, we sports wise, you know, I participated in everything I could.
[05:53] And we really only competed against the US school. So every weekend we were either traveling to Paris or traveling to Brussels or traveling to London or they were coming to us.
[06:04] So it was a very enriching experience as far as just being able to meet and greet American families doing kind of what we were, but in a different location and again hosting families, same thing.
[06:16] It was a lot of fun to meet and greet these kids and bring them out to our stomping grounds where we were hanging out as kids in those countries.
[06:24] So we moved back in My senior year.
[06:26] And again, one, you know, as a senior coming into a high school, it was a little awkward. You know, I really didn't have any friends or cliques there and just kind of toughed it out through that last year.
[06:40] Didn't really know where I wanted to go to school or what I wanted to do,
[06:43] but the majority of kids in my high school were applying to schools like Bucknell or Lehigh or Lafayette. You know, it's, it was like a very boilerplate list of schools that they all plan to attend.
[06:58] So, so I, I interviewed at a couple just to placate my parents, but in the end I filled out the Common app and I applied to Lafayette and Lehigh and, and I was accepted at Lehigh and waitlisted at Lafayette.
[07:12] And I think it was a combination of my mother contacting Lafayette over like a two month period, constantly harassing them about getting her son into school,
[07:23] that eventually they were just like, oh God, lady, please just stop calling and let me.
[07:28] So that's how I ended up at Lafayette College and at Lafayette again, wonderful time. But again, I didn't really have a lot of direction, didn't know what I wanted to do.
[07:39] Started out in engineering.
[07:41] Decided after the first semester the engineering really wasn't compatible with my social schedule at school and decided that a change might do me good.
[07:52] So I switched to business economics and for the next three years,
[07:57] you know, managed to plod through the classes and the requirements,
[08:02] Took some summer classes, took some interim winter classes to put together a combination,
[08:08] you know, that would, that would allow me to graduate on time with my, my friends.
[08:12] My senior year of college,
[08:15] I,
[08:16] at that point I was looking for a place to live and I was approached by two sophomores that were planning on living together,
[08:26] or juniors, I'm sorry. And they needed a roommate and that was Tony Brooke and Steve Gottlieb.
[08:32] And they asked me if I wanted to live with them. And it's probably because they just ran out of people to ask. And I was like, just a weird option.
[08:39] But it actually, it worked out pretty well. We had a fantastic senior year and that was really where I made a lot of new friends.
[08:48] Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of friends through the first year, three years of school,
[08:52] being in a fraternity, I was in Du Delta Upsilon.
[08:57] And I met a lot of good friends, including Matt, including Tina,
[09:00] and just had a great time. But this senior year was something special because I was introduced to a whole new age group, I guess like the class below me, which I didn't really hang out with or do much with during the first three years.
[09:15] But in this last year, I spent my majority of time with these underclassmen, and I. I had a great time,
[09:22] thoroughly enjoyed my senior year and still managed to graduate on time,
[09:26] which was important for my parents.
[09:30] And after I graduated.
[09:32] Christina Donovan: Can I. Can I just jump in? Steve. That Steve lived in the apartment behind the apartment I lived in. And I lived in an apartment with five girls, one of which is Steve's wife, Kelly, so.
[09:49] Steve Toman: Correct. Thank you for. I was gonna. I was gonna back up and say, during that senior year in the apartment, we lived. We had had you girls up in front, and I knew Kelly socially.
[09:58] I knew. But I, you know, but not as well as I knew you girls. And I. Again, it was one of those things where she knew me and I knew her,
[10:08] but we really didn't cross paths very much socially.
[10:11] She ran in slightly different circles.
[10:14] But it wasn't until I graduated and lived about an hour away and was at a loss because I didn't have any friends, really, in the area where I had. My parents were living, and now I was living with them.
[10:25] Basically. I just used to come home or back to school every weekend for, like, the first year because I just. I had no other social outlet. And I still loved coming back because I always had a place to stay and always had friends that were there.
[10:38] And that's kind of where I started.
[10:40] I started talking and dealing with. With Kel on a more regular basis.
[10:45] And, you know, eventually we just got to know each other a little bit, and I asked her out on a date,
[10:50] and we,
[10:52] you know, we ended up just kind of clicking. And from that point on, you know, basically we were together and it's. We just celebrated our 31st year of marriage this year.
[11:02] And I can't believe it's gone by so quickly,
[11:06] but, yeah, that those are the early. The early years for us. And, you know, we. We were married a few years out of school.
[11:13] We started out, you know, in New Jersey, and then we lived a little bit in New York,
[11:18] and then we were back to New Jersey. And, you know, she was growing her career and I was doing my career, and, you know, in between, we started the family training wheels by getting a dog, and then we started having our family.
[11:31] And then when it was about. When our youngest daughter of three was about one year old, Kelly had an opportunity for a job in Colorado.
[11:41] And we didn't know anybody in Colorado, had no connections, but it just seemed like a wonderful opportunity for an adventure. So we just. We Discussed it and we said, yeah, let's, let's go for it.
[11:52] Let's try it. So we did,
[11:53] and we were in Colorado for about 10 years, and they were some of the best years that we've ever had.
[11:59] Um, kids loved it. We loved it. We have wonderful friends from our old neighborhood. We still actually vacation with them a couple times every year.
[12:09] They either come here or we pick a destination and we travel with them. And there's about four or five families from that neighborhood that still live there that we still still are great friends with, that we do a lot with.
[12:20] Came back about 13 years ago from.
[12:24] Tara Bansal: What brought you back? What brought you back again?
[12:27] Steve Toman: It was another opportunity for Kelly and her.
[12:30] Her a new employer. And it was an offer she couldn't refuse, really. And we decided the timing wise, because we always looked at this as a family,
[12:37] that it made sense because each of the girls was going into the next subsequent, like, shift of schools and grades. Like, Melissa was going to be a freshman in high school and Maddie was going to be,
[12:50] you know, starting middle school and Megan was going to be in elementary. So the timing as far as just the transition made the most sense to be the least disruptive for the girls.
[13:00] Plus, Virginia beach, which is where we ended up moving to in Virginia, has an excellent school system,
[13:06] so stars kind of aligned. We decided this would be a wonderful opportunity to try. Try something on the East Coast. And also at that time, you know, there were family members that were getting older and health issues.
[13:19] So we want it to be kind of closer on the East Coast.
[13:22] So we made that move and, you know,
[13:25] kicking and screaming, you know, we left because we absolutely love Colorado,
[13:29] but we have really grown to love this area.
[13:32] Big military presence. A lot of people come through here on tours and end up coming back and retiring just because it's so nice. It's the, the weather is very nice.
[13:41] You've got the beach, you've got all sorts of activities, you've got airports, hospitals, libraries, you know, know, entertainment,
[13:49] everything. So that brought us back here. And again during these transitions, I was working in mortgage banking for different companies, and that was pretty much my career for about 30 years.
[13:59] And I'd been with a bank out here for about 10,
[14:04] and a couple years ago they downsized due to the economy. And that's basically when I was starting to hit that stride where I was like,
[14:14] already thinking about retirement but not quite ready for it.
[14:17] And that's, that's when I started to, to make some, you know, changes in my career and my life and Things were also changing because all my girls at that point had grown and were out of the house.
[14:29] So that again, the timing of it was pretty good because I was past that stage of my life as far as raising kids and trying to put them through school and,
[14:39] you know, financially being all concerned about life and could concentrate now on more of, you know, things that I wanted to do or needed to do or however you want to put it.
[14:49] So that's kind of what led me up to this point. And the last couple of years have been transitional as far as going through EMT training, getting certified there,
[15:02] ending up working at a barbecue joint of all places,
[15:06] just on a whim,
[15:07] cooking there and smoking there for the last two years. And that being one of the the best things I've ever done. Not so much for the money, but just for the sheer love of it.
[15:17] And driving Kelly crazy, of course, because I'm getting up at 4am in the morning to go to work and she's still trying to sleep.
[15:24] So it's been, it's been fun, it's been a, interesting transition. But now the barbecue kind of thing is coming to an end temporarily. We, I, I'm basically going to use this certification and skill set that I have from doing EMT work to working medical transport.
[15:43] So I will be transporting patients to and from,
[15:47] you know, medical facilities, nursing homes, rehabs,
[15:50] dialysis,
[15:52] you name it.
[15:53] Just pretty much just a taxi service for folks that can't do it on their own.
[15:59] And I'm still getting paid for it, which is good, but it is a part time gig, just like my EMT is a volunteer gig. I can do these when I want and flex my schedule as needed.
[16:09] So that's kind of where I am now and how I got here.
[16:15] Sorry, a little long winded.
[16:17] Christina Donovan: No, it's very interesting. How did you decide that you wanted to be an EMT volunteer?
[16:25] Steve Toman: Well, you know, growing up I always thought it'd be kind of neat to be like in the military or the fire department or the police, you know, just something with uniform, a badge, responsibility,
[16:35] you know, just respect.
[16:37] But, you know, never really pursued any of those, you know, throughout school or family life. And I finally got to a point where I'm driving past the sign every day by my old neighborhood and it's like, EMT trust training provided free of charge.
[16:53] You know, it's like basically no cost, become a free, you know, emt. And I'm like, okay, I've got the time.
[16:58] I'm still kind of interested in it. I would like to Check it out. Now, let me preface this by saying that I went to a local college initially interested in maybe obtaining an RN degree,
[17:10] took their aptitude test. I did pass, believe it or not, but decided that the, that what it would take to become an RN was kind of way above my, my, my skill set and my level of interest once I learned more about it, but still wanting to contribute, give back to the community,
[17:28] wherever you want to put it. The EMT route seemed to make sense. So I signed up and I joined an academy program in the local EMS branch.
[17:38] So it was free of charge.
[17:39] It was a six month course,
[17:41] one night a week for four hours for six months, you know, for six months.
[17:45] So got through that, tested out of that program,
[17:49] tested for the national emt,
[17:51] passed that. And at this point, now I'm certified to be a full time volunteer. So I become an intern for like three months.
[18:02] And once they've kind of vetted me and made sure I'm not a danger to anybody,
[18:06] including myself,
[18:08] I get, I am released now. And now I can pick and choose, like, okay, I want to run every Monday or every. Right now, that's what I do. I run every Monday and they're 12 hour shifts and they're exciting,
[18:22] they're intimidating,
[18:23] they're, you know, frightening. There's a lot of emotions that go through my mind every day, but every run, you know, you gain new skills, more confidence. So I'm still on that journey to get to a point where I'm comfortable,
[18:37] but I'm glad I'm doing it. It's been a challenge and I'm glad, I'm glad for it.
[18:44] Tara Bansal: Wow. Do you like the people you're working with?
[18:48] Steve Toman: Oh, absolutely. I've never met more, you know, people that I respect from just a professionalism and skill set,
[18:58] whether it's fire department on scene or police department or the emt, the, the basics, which is what I am. I'm a basic emt,
[19:07] advanced all the way up to paramedic. And the volunteers,
[19:12] again, we don't get paid,
[19:14] but we run with city employees and they tend to be the paramedics and medics and they're just a very high caliber and high quality person who really cares a lot about what they're doing.
[19:27] And every single time, I'm impressed by every single person.
[19:32] Tara Bansal: Wow.
[19:32] Steve Toman: Yeah.
[19:33] Tara Bansal: Do you look forward to your shifts?
[19:35] Steve Toman: I do. I, I typically do not sleep well the night before because I'm so anxious, looking at the clock, waiting to get up at 5 o' clock or 4 o' clock to get to a shift.
[19:45] But,
[19:46] yes,
[19:47] I. I'm always excited about going. And it's just, you know, once that first alarm hits, from there on, I'm like, okay,
[19:54] now, now the. The kind of. The buildup is. Is done, and now you're jumping into, you know, why you're doing it. And every patient is different,
[20:03] and they all have their challenges, but, you know, at the end of the day, they're. They're all people in need. They're calling 911 because they're having the worst day of their life.
[20:11] So I'm glad I can be there to kind of help them through it.
[20:14] Tara Bansal: Yeah. How big is the team that you work with when you're on a shift?
[20:20] Steve Toman: Typically, it's. You have usually a basic.
[20:23] A paramedic,
[20:25] and in most cases, at least in our squad,
[20:27] there is an intern.
[20:30] So we have a pretty healthy intern pipeline.
[20:34] And once they're through the academy program like I went through, you have to kind of sit and go through an internship until you're at a point where they feel that you're ready to be released.
[20:44] So it's usually two to three people on an ambulance at any given time.
[20:50] Tara Bansal: Nice. I loved how you said this is like a transition time. Is that how you viewed it after you left your primary work?
[21:02] Steve Toman: Yeah,
[21:03] for years.
[21:04] It was funny because, you know, for years, in talking with, like, our financial advisor, he. He would always stress, you know, hey, you guys are doing great in your work life.
[21:13] You're. You're setting yourself up for success in retirement, yada, yada. But he always ended with,
[21:19] you should have a plan for when you retire. Because he would describe stories and scenarios where people, you know,
[21:28] retired and,
[21:29] you know, didn't really know what it was they wanted to do two weeks after retirement. So he's like, yeah, he's like, divorce rates are, like, over 50% and alcoholism is high.
[21:39] And he's like, why do you think that is? It's. It's because people don't know what to do with themselves. They lose a sense of identity. And I'll be honest, that was the biggest hurdle I had,
[21:48] because it wasn't of my own choosing. To retire, was just, you know,
[21:51] climbing out of that hole of thinking, okay, I. I'm not worth something, or I can't contribute, or. Or they. There's no value anymore to what I can bring to the table.
[22:02] And I had to convince myself that it wasn't me that got me out of the last job. It was just the situation.
[22:09] And once I was able to kind of get Past that little hurdle.
[22:13] Then I was just like, well, okay, well what do I want to do? Because I can't hang around the house all day driving Kelly crazy.
[22:20] I'm bored. I said, I got to do, I have to do something to keep me engaged? What is it that I. And that's where I started thinking about the emt.
[22:28] And I'm like, okay, let's, let's start with that.
[22:30] And I did a little bit of Habitat for Humanity and that was fun, but it was like the summertime when I did it.
[22:37] And I'll be honest with you, after sitting in a chair for 30 years, you know, doing mortgage inside, air conditioned, plush office,
[22:45] standing on my feet 8 hours in 95 degree weather in the summer, trying to build a porch, kicked my butt. And I,
[22:54] I have a lot of respect for all these people that do this. It's a wonderful cause. But I physically found I was not able to do that any longer. So that was very short lived.
[23:04] But the EMT thing was a little bit easier, you know, but that was in it of itself going to be a great opportunity, like to volunteer and kind of give back.
[23:11] And I felt good about it, but I wanted to do something else, you know, because I still wasn't ready for full retirement. I still wanted to contribute. So I'm like, okay,
[23:20] what can I do to earn a paying job? And that's, you know, again, I kind of stumbled into the barbecue thing, but in the end that wasn't really for money either.
[23:29] You know, it paid, but it was just, it was more, I was entertained because I've always liked to cook, certainly like to eat,
[23:36] but I was fascinated by the whole smoking process. And I learned so much in two years. Just the love and the effort and the blood, sweat and tears that go into producing good barbecue.
[23:49] And I loved it, absolutely loved it. It was a hard job on my feet a lot, but I toughed through it because I enjoyed it so much.
[23:56] And Kelly would constantly be asking me, are you sure you want to do this? Don't you want to quit? And as I'm like popping four Motrin and trudging upstairs to take a hot shower after a 12 hour cook, I'm like, yep, still love it.
[24:08] I'm going to keep doing it.
[24:11] So again, one of those things where I just, I didn't know that I wanted to do that and I, I. The things I was learning now, now that my confidence was back a little more, was that there were things out there that are worth doing that you don't necessarily have to make the most money or have the most,
[24:30] you know, prestige or whatever. You just have to enjoy doing them.
[24:33] And these were the things I was picking up and learning as I was going. And I'm hoping that this next chapter with the medical transport is going to be the same until, you know, maybe another opportunity comes up to do something different if it doesn't work out.
[24:45] But at this point,
[24:47] it doesn't matter. If something doesn't work out, I'll pick up and move on to the next thing and figure it out, because I'm not ready to retire full time.
[24:54] I call this my semi retirement.
[24:56] Hopefully, Kelly's only going to have to work for a couple more years, and during that time, I definitely want to keep busy, entertained, build a skill set, do something to keep from driving her crazy and going crazy myself.
[25:07] So that's.
[25:09] Tara Bansal: How did you stumble upon the smoking barbecue gig?
[25:14] Steve Toman: I went for lunch one day at this brewery where I liked the beer and I like the atmosphere,
[25:20] and I'd never really eaten the food. I kind of went in, had a beer, and then left. So I went in one day with Kelly and some friends,
[25:27] and we had lunch and it was fantastic. It was, it was just, again, I love to eat. I love all kinds of food. And the barbecue is, is special, and Kelly's not a big fan, so this was a treat because we got to go someplace and eat, which you normally wouldn't pick,
[25:42] and it was awesome. And on the way out,
[25:45] I went to the counter and jokingly said to the guy, hey, that was righteous barbecue. I said, if you guys ever need any help. And he looked at me and said, are you serious?
[25:54] And I said, Yes.
[25:55] 24 hours later, I was sitting and interviewing with the owner of the, of the. The barbecue and his head Baker.
[26:03] And 45 minutes after that, I had the job.
[26:06] And I. I was honest with him. I. He said, have you ever smoked? I said, no. I said, I barbecued. I love to cook. I love this. And he's like,
[26:13] as long as you show up on time,
[26:15] you know, and you're this enthusiastic, the job's yours. And I assured him that, you know, I was definitely going to put 100% into it. And the funny thing is, I was definitely the oldest person there,
[26:28] but it worked out great because I showed up to work on time,
[26:32] I learned I did the job, and that's pretty much all you need to do. But you'd be surprised how many people don't get that and don't do that. So I think it was a.
[26:42] A win, win. For both myself and the owner of the, the barbecue at the end of the day, because he, he got something out of this as far as continuity and it's, you know, somebody he could worker.
[26:54] Yeah,
[26:55] exactly. And that's one of the things I, I'd like to think that all the life experience and job experience up to this point gives me is that when I say I'm going to show up, I'm going to show up and I'm going to do the job.
[27:06] And I don't see that in a lot out or a lot, you know, a lot of folks out there yet they're still working on it. But yeah, that's how I stumbled across that one.
[27:16] Tara Bansal: That's a good story. I,
[27:17] and part of it's like just putting yourself out there and what interests you. I feel like that's one of our themes is.
[27:24] But as you said, sometimes you don't even know exactly what you're going to enjoy and so.
[27:30] Steve Toman: Exactly.
[27:31] Tara Bansal: Yeah. What do you think is your superpower?
[27:35] Steve Toman: My superpower?
[27:37] I was joking with Kelly about this last night. I said annoying you and that's every mouth is superpower. I don't even have to wear a cape.
[27:47] You know, I really,
[27:50] at this point, I think my superpower sometimes is just,
[27:53] you know, getting out of bed,
[27:56] working all through the creeks and the groans and the new aches and pains and just getting ready to get her done again, you know, and just, and, and getting through a full, you know, 12 hour day or shift or whatever, and then still making it home, still being able to enjoy,
[28:12] you know, what I have at home as far as my, my family life and then getting up and doing it again. So, yeah, just like keep, keep going, keep plodding along that, that, that, that's my limited superpower.
[28:26] Christina Donovan: That's a great superpower.
[28:28] Tara Bansal: It is a great superpower. But I feel like you are so humble still, Steve. On, like, not at all. Yes, you are. I mean.
[28:38] Christina Donovan: Can you spend a few minutes, Steve,
[28:40] talking about the traveling that you and Kelly do? I mean, you,
[28:45] your background as a child, growing up overseas gave you phenomenal exposure across the globe.
[28:53] But you and Kelly travel a lot now.
[28:57] Steve Toman: We, we try to.
[28:59] One of the things we've discussed. I'm sorry about that. One of the things we've discussed throughout our lifetime is how much we value experiences more than like the money it costs to buy them.
[29:10] So we figure while we're young enough and healthy enough and can afford things,
[29:15] traveling is one of the things we both love to do. And I'm so Happy that she likes to, because I certainly have friends that they have no interest in travel, and there's nothing wrong with that, but there are so many new and exciting things to see out there and so many,
[29:28] you know, interesting cultures and people to meet. And you're right. Growing up, you know, I moved every few years. So when I stopped moving every few years,
[29:37] I would get nervous. I just felt like something wasn't happening that should be happening. But all the experiences I had were always, you know, very enlightening, met tremendous people, learned things that most people don't get to see.
[29:51] And it gave me an appreciation for wanting to do this, not only for myself and for Kelly, but for the girls, too.
[29:55] And the way that we raise them and the situations, environments that they grew up in were so multicultural and just economically diverse that they can walk into any situation and feel comfortable and talk with people and be.
[30:10] And just, you know, be part of what. What they're in, you know, involved in,
[30:15] versus tentatively standing on the sideline and not engaging or being nervous about things because it's unfamiliar or they're not sure about how to deal with it.
[30:26] They've been through that. They went to school here with military kids that were only here for two years at a time and then gone. They went to schools that were economically and socially diverse that where they were in the minority sometimes.
[30:40] Those are the kind of experiences that I wanted to continue to do,
[30:44] you know, do with Kel and I as far as traveling. You know, see new places, meet new people,
[30:49] share, just share experiences that at the end of the, you know, end of the day, end of our lives, whatever, those are the things we'll look back on and. And have memories and, you know, and share with each other versus just like, possessions of things.
[31:02] So we try to travel at least two big trips a year, and usually one of them is with our group of friends from Colorado.
[31:10] Granted, they. They love beaches and things, and we live at a beach, but we understand.
[31:16] So we go to whatever beach they want to go to, wherever in the world it is,
[31:20] and we've had some really good experiences doing that. But then the other trip is just Kel and I, and I love traveling with just her because half the itinerary is unplanned.
[31:30] It's just walk, get lost,
[31:32] figure it out.
[31:33] And that's where we have the most fun.
[31:36] And between,
[31:37] you know, going to Europe,
[31:40] going to Central America, you know, there. There's still so many places left to go that when we talk about going places that we've loved, we'd love to go back to them, but we're always like, but there's these other three, four, five places that we have on the list that we want to go to first.
[31:55] So we're always trying to plan the next trip. And like I said, it's always some, I love to look forward to the trip, so I don't mind planning them 9, 10, 12 months out because that's how I, that's how I roll.
[32:07] But I have friends who can't plan things a week in advance.
[32:10] So it's a little like herding cats sometimes. But in the end it always works out and everybody has a great time.
[32:16] But we will continue to do that as often as we can. And I'll be honest with you, that's one of the things we, we told our financial guy. We're like, look, in retirement, we want to front load our retirement for like the first 10 or 15 years.
[32:30] That's where we want to spend the majority of our savings because that's when we're going to be healthy enough to be able to do the things we want to do.
[32:38] After that,
[32:39] physically, we might not be able to do these things anymore. So let's get her done up front and let's not wait too long,
[32:45] like right now for Kel to retire because we want to get on with doing these things more on a full time basis than a part time basis, if that makes sense.
[32:55] Tara Bansal: Yeah. How long are most of your trips?
[32:58] Steve Toman: When Kelly and I travel to Europe, we generally try to make them 10 days. And again, the biggest restriction at this point is, is,
[33:06] you know, she's still, yeah, is work. She's still working full time. And again, until recently, I, I kind of was too. So it was, you know, 10 days. If you're going to commit to going overseas and spending a lot of money or whatever it is that you're doing, you might as well spend the time to enjoy it.
[33:19] Also, you know, we, we've learned that when you do trips like that, you know, don't try to see seven or eight countries or city, whatever in a, in a two week period.
[33:29] It's not fun. At the end of the day, go and see two, go and see three.
[33:33] Really,
[33:34] really enjoy it. So yeah, I, for right now, it's, it's generally capped at about two weeks.
[33:40] Tara Bansal: What's next on your trips that are planned right now or that you are coming up?
[33:46] Christina Donovan: Well, you should say you just got back from Columbia.
[33:49] Steve Toman: Yes, we just got back from San Andreas.
[33:53] It's an island off the coast of Columbia. And we Went there with. With our group of friends from Colorado. Nobody had ever been there before. Kelly found it on a blog that it was an interesting place.
[34:04] Turns out it's not really a place Americans go to. We were, like, the only Americans there on this resort that we went to, and it's where the Colombians go and hang out, and that's where they vacation.
[34:15] So we were kind of.
[34:18] It was. It was actually really awesome. It was. Because I think there's a different expectancy between, you know, like your typical place where you go to visit.
[34:28] That's like a. Like a resort style that's tailored towards Europeans or Americans versus maybe what is more tailored towards the,
[34:37] you know, local clientele. And it was. It was great. I had no complaints about it. It was fun.
[34:44] We all had a good time.
[34:45] Would we go back? No. But that's only because there's other places to go and explore and see. So. Yeah, that was our most recent one, but two weeks, we're going to Telluride for the Bluegrass festival in Telluride, Colorado,
[35:00] which we went to for the first time last year, had no real interest in bluegrass music,
[35:06] but it was so beautiful,
[35:08] and the people were so,
[35:10] you know, chill, and the atmosphere was amazing, and I was dancing to every song. I didn't even know the songs because it was just a fun, upbeat music and situate, you know, and environment.
[35:21] I just said, kel, we got to come back.
[35:23] So we are coming back and we're traveling.
[35:27] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[35:28] Steve Toman: Yeah. I mean, it's probably one of the most beautiful parts of Colorado, in my opinion. Yeah. So looking forward to that.
[35:35] Tara Bansal: Wow, that's great.
[35:37] Christina Donovan: I mean, it seems like you and Kelly have talked a lot about retirement and your plans.
[35:45] I mean,
[35:47] I knew your parents. Would you consider them role models for retirement?
[35:52] Steve Toman: Absolutely.
[35:53] Absolutely.
[35:54] They worked their entire professional career doing, you know, doing what they loved, and when they retired, they knew exactly what they wanted to do. They wanted to move to New England,
[36:05] so they moved to New Hampshire and retired there.
[36:09] And we visited them numerous times. And just what I found was that, you know, they picked the town and the location, the environment that.
[36:20] That they had dreamt about and talked about their entire adult life.
[36:23] And so they were living their dream at that point. They were. They were where they wanted to be, and I loved visiting them there and seeing them in that environment because they were.
[36:33] They were in love with it, and they were at peace with how they got there and how they were going to stay there.
[36:39] And.
[36:40] Yeah,
[36:41] but, you know, again, more importantly, they.
[36:43] They planned for it. They saved you know, they did the right things.
[36:49] And all throughout like my childhood and then my adulthood, I saw that as a really good example to follow because I wanted to be able to do what they were doing.
[37:00] But I realized early on, like, you can't afford to do those things unless you plan for that, you know, you savings or whatever. So yeah, as role models, they, they definitely established to me, you know, certain things that, that I try to instill in my kids, like, hey, first job,
[37:15] 401k plan, start contributing. Because it doesn't mean much now at 21, but I guarantee you at 55, 58, you're going to look at that and say, oh, okay, I'm glad I did that.
[37:27] So now I'm trying to set them up with for the same success that, that I think my parents had and then instilled in us.
[37:34] So yeah, they were definitely the role model and Kelly's parents were the same way and she's been, you know, always been of the same mindset that, you know, if, if you,
[37:44] what's the saying? If you fail the plan, you plan to fail.
[37:48] You just kind of, you know, it's not all about tomorrow. You're still trying to live in the moment, but just like insurance, you're just planning for the future. You're planning to make sure you're all taken care of.
[38:02] Tara Bansal: When did you get a financial advisor? How old were you?
[38:07] Steve Toman: We probably got a financial Advisor in our 30s.
[38:13] It was before we left New Jersey for Colorado because at that point we had the three girls and we wanted to make sure that they were protected if should anything, God forbid, happen to us.
[38:24] So that's when we started, you know,
[38:26] making plans for like a living will,
[38:30] you know, just things that would protect them in case anything bad ever happened. And also at the same time starting to kind of plan for Kelly and our future going forward.
[38:41] So probably in our 30s somewhere. But you know, it didn't really get hot and heavy as far as, you know, interactions until we were probably in our late 40s.
[38:52] Because initially, you know, setting up a will or a trust or whatever was, you know, you set it up once and it kind of just, it's established and it rolls from there.
[39:00] But as far as tailoring your, you know, your contributions and investments and target dates and things of that nature and long term care insurance,
[39:10] we weren't doing those things until we were in our late 40s because they were like, okay, once you get in your 50s, these are more active years as far as planning and, and programs.
[39:20] You want to get involved In. So we're like, okay. So that's. Yeah, we just. We had. We had them going all along,
[39:26] but that was more, again, because my parents had them, you know, and I'm like, okay, if they had them, then it makes sense. We should probably have them.
[39:34] Tara Bansal: I'm impressed, because a lot of people don't necessarily do it in their 30s.
[39:39] And so my other question was, what motivated you to do it? And it sounds like because your parents did and having your kids.
[39:47] Steve Toman: Yeah, it was the parents who set the example and the kids who are the assets we wanted to protect.
[39:53] Tara Bansal: Very good.
[39:55] Good for you.
[39:56] How did your parents choose where to settle? Because I'm interested in this just because I think a lot of people kind of choose, and then they're not necessarily happy there.
[40:08] Steve Toman: Well, and again, that goes back to the financial advisor always telling us, have, you know, kind of have discussions and thoughts about what you want to do during retirement and certainly where you want to spend that retirement is one of the biggest decisions you can make.
[40:22] So we've been having that conversation for years.
[40:26] But my parents, yeah, they, you know, they had talked about New England, I think just they grew up, like, in the Massachusetts area and up upstate New York area. So they were kind of familiar with that kind of a New England vibe.
[40:41] They loved Vermont, loved New Hampshire.
[40:44] They loved vacationing up there.
[40:47] They liked the climate. They like just like the,
[40:50] I guess, the politics, the people,
[40:52] you name it. They were kind of infatuated with just that whole New England thing. Even though I, as a child, never really. We never lived in New England.
[41:00] It was just something that they had always talked about and. And, you know, and had dreamt about doing. So they probably spent over a year toward. Just before they retired,
[41:11] they spent a lot of, like, three and four day vacations because we were gone by this point. And the two of them would drive up and just drive through a state and just stop and, you know, stay at a hotel or stay at a B and B or, you know,
[41:26] and. And they traipsed through a lot of New England before they settled on New Hampshire.
[41:32] And I. I give them kudos because they. They did their legwork, they did their homework, and they kind of knew what they were getting into versus just picking a place, going there, and then deciding six months to a year later, this isn't really what I thought it was going to be,
[41:45] and now you've got to move again, potentially. So, yeah, yeah, definitely having that conversation.
[41:51] Tara Bansal: And it sounds like they did physical research. Like, they went and visited and they actually looked At.
[41:58] Steve Toman: And they were having a great time doing it, too, so.
[42:01] Tara Bansal: So that's nice. Did they completely stop working? How did they. Either you or Kylie's parents, like, think of. Feel useful or what did they do to keep busy?
[42:16] Steve Toman: Well, to answer the first part of the question, they both retired at about the same time. Okay. And they. And they retired. What's that?
[42:25] Tara Bansal: How old were they?
[42:27] Steve Toman: Don't quote me, but I believe they were both 61. 61, 62. Right in that range. Pretty.
[42:35] Tara Bansal: Yeah.
[42:36] Steve Toman: They didn't want to be far off from Medicaid, Medicare and claiming Social Security.
[42:41] But they had their healthcare through my dad's employer for life,
[42:45] based on where he had worked and for how long. So they were covered there.
[42:49] But they retired at the same time,
[42:51] moved up to the town that they had found,
[42:53] rented a home for a year while they had their home built,
[42:58] moved into their new home. And during that time and all the time that they were there,
[43:04] they joined many of the social clubs and things of that nature for folks of their age. My dad,
[43:11] he likes. He used to like to say, you know, he joined what he called.
[43:14] It was the birthday club. And every month, once a month, they would get all these, you know, older gentlemen would get together and have lunch together and just kibits and talk and.
[43:22] And it was for somebody's birthday, whoever's birthday was that month, they were celebrating. And when he joined, he was one of the youngest of the group.
[43:29] And obviously that changed over the time he was there, and towards the end, he was one of the oldest in the group,
[43:35] but he enjoyed that. But these were guys that he worked with at the Historical Society. He would go there, like,
[43:42] once every couple of weeks, and they would always have something that needed to be refurbished or worked on or whatever.
[43:48] So he kept himself busy to that extent. He wasn't terribly worried about being engaged. He was happy to read a book, walk the dogs, sit and listen to music, whatever.
[43:57] My mom,
[43:59] she always had to be busy,
[44:00] so the first thing she did was, of course, join, like, the Civic League up there and the Ladies Auxiliary and the,
[44:07] you know, she worked at the local hospital,
[44:09] you know, at the front, like,
[44:11] organizing flowers for patients.
[44:15] She worked at the garden club and she enjoyed it. But what, what she found funny and, and she only lasted a short time in some of these clubs was that a lot of the women that were retiring up there were all coming from, like, Manhattan and New York, and they were all business women,
[44:30] like CEOs, like, high powered, and they would. That's. They. That's how they rolled. They were used to having this authority and power. And once they got up there and they joined, like the little women's club,
[44:40] they would run that, like a CEO board,
[44:42] like a CEO would run their board of execs. And she kind of got tired of that after a while because they're like, they're just plants, they're just flowers. We're just doing volunteer work here.
[44:53] You don't have to treat it like a business. But they did enjoy and they did engage. They knew a lot of people in the community,
[45:01] I will say.
[45:01] Christina Donovan: I mean, I knew Steve's parents well, and they are two of the most social people I ever knew. And they were so welcoming. They loved to host people and they loved food and entertaining.
[45:16] So I can totally see how your parents joined right into a community.
[45:22] Steve Toman: Oh, yeah,
[45:23] they love the social aspect up there.
[45:26] There. There was always something going on, whether it was a Kentucky Derby party or a Preakness or, you know,
[45:34] what, Whatever kind of, you know, situation you could think of where it would involve getting people together for drinks and appetizers. They. They were on board. And I'll be honest with you, that was one of the life skills that my parents taught me growing up.
[45:46] So throughout my married life with Kelly, we always entertained.
[45:52] I. I don't even know how to describe, like,
[45:54] you'll have friends when you're growing up or you're. And when you're growing up and. And you're. You're,
[45:59] you know, living your life, and you'll have them over half a dozen times, but not once in all the time that you live with around their area have you been to their house, have they entertained, have they done things of that nature.
[46:10] But for us, it was just normal course of business to have this big party, have people in and entertain.
[46:16] And we had set, you know, sets of neighbors in every neighborhood we lived in that we just kind of rotated around and did this. And that was something I learned from my parents.
[46:25] But I don't see a lot of that anymore, especially with my kids. It's just not a thing as much. But that's whole social entertaining aspect was very much ingrained for me at a early age.
[46:36] And we carried it through and my parents carried it through until they were not able to do it anymore. And I always love that because met a lot of good friends, a lot of their good friends throughout those parties.
[46:45] Christina Donovan: So, I mean, what advice, Steve, would you give your younger self at this point?
[46:54] Steve Toman: Don't sweat the small stuff.
[46:56] Things have a way of working out. And I, I I probably spend much more time worrying about things that ultimately didn't need to be worried about.
[47:06] Christina Donovan: Worrier you or Kelly?
[47:08] Steve Toman: Oh, God, me,
[47:10] Absolutely me,
[47:11] yes. She thinks I should be on some kind of prescription. Most of the time I still worry and I worry for, for frivolous reasons sometimes. But, you know, I'd like to also think that that worry just shows that I'm, I want to make sure that things turn out right and that things work out.
[47:28] Whether I can control them or not is the issue that I'm, I always deal with saying, how much should I worry? Because if I can't change it, then why worry about it?
[47:37] But definitely me.
[47:39] Tara Bansal: What's most important to you now, like.
[47:42] Christina Donovan: During this transition time?
[47:44] Tara Bansal: Transition time?
[47:45] Steve Toman: Yeah,
[47:47] you know,
[47:47] I guess just kind of, again, I want to,
[47:51] I want to feel like I'm still contributing, that I still bring value to the table.
[47:57] Whatever it is I do, whether it's emt,
[48:01] smoking barbecue, I'm transporting patients,
[48:04] whatever it is,
[48:05] I still want to be engaged,
[48:07] have a sense of pride, a sense of worth.
[48:12] That, that's part of what I'm worried about. Otherwise, the other thing I worry is I just want, I want Kelly to have a good work life balance. I don't want the end of her career to be the most stressful time of her life because she's earned better than that.
[48:27] She's, she, she shouldn't have to,
[48:30] in my opinion, work as hard as she does. You know,
[48:33] for anybody who knows Kelly, I mean, she does everything 110% and she, she carries a lot of weight at work and I, you know, I do what I can at home to try to lighten the burden here, but I just, I want, I worry about getting her to and through retirement,
[48:48] you know, with her sanity and her health, because I don't want, I, I don't want her to, you know, to, to burn out at the end when she should just be getting brighter.
[48:58] So that's my biggest.
[49:01] Tara Bansal: What does Kelly want to do after she leaves for a full time job?
[49:06] Steve Toman: You know,
[49:09] that is not something that we discuss a lot because again, anybody who knows Kelly knows that she is never going to sit still, never going to be bored.
[49:19] Tara Bansal: That's why I had to ask.
[49:20] Steve Toman: She will find something to engage in and hopefully it's something that we can do together. Like, she's, she loves doing like, you know, soup kitchens and volunteer,
[49:29] you know, opportunities.
[49:31] We're volunteering in a couple weeks to do something together and I, I love doing those things together with her. So again, I'm not worried about her at all. I, I'm only worried about me keeping from driving her crazy.
[49:44] She'll, she'll be just fine. But she could sit with a book and be just fine. I can't. But now she, she'll, she'll be just fine.
[49:52] Tara Bansal: What advice do you have for those approaching this transition period just based on your past couple of years?
[50:02] Steve Toman: Honestly,
[50:04] just keep an open and ongoing dialogue with your spouse or significant other.
[50:10] Because I mean, really,
[50:14] what, you know, when you, when you think about retirement, you know, you have certain things in your head about what you think it is, and it's usually not going to be that for any number of reasons that you can read self help books about or whatever,
[50:27] but just, you know, kind of have a plan of what you want to do to kind of a, make sure they're the same things you want to do together because you don't want to be surprised and retire and find out your spouse wants to do something completely different than you envisioned.
[50:42] So it's nice to be on the same page at least with that open and ongoing dialogue. And again, things change.
[50:48] So that open dialogue can, can be tweaked and, and you can find out certain things that you don't want to do or certain things that you do want to do.
[50:55] A lot of what we decide just is based on ruling things out. But yeah, I, I, again, just having the open and honest dialogue about, hey,
[51:05] what do you think you would like to do in retirement or how do you envision it so you can make sure you're on the same page is all.
[51:11] That's,
[51:12] that's my only advice. And that's what I tell my friends all the time. I'm just like,
[51:16] you don't have to necessarily have a plan, but at least be talking about it so that the other person or yourself is not surprised come the 11th hour when you're ready to say, okay, hey, let's step away,
[51:27] we feel comfortable and ready to do this. And oh, by the way, I want to go to California, you know, and make pottery.
[51:33] Wait a minute,
[51:35] I don't want to go to California and make pottery. Well, now you're, now you got to have a real quick conversation.
[51:40] Tara Bansal: So I agree. And the balancing act of a couple.
[51:45] Christina Donovan: Right, like that.
[51:46] Steve Toman: Absolutely, absolutely. It's all give and take and you know, again, as long as you're open and communicating.
[51:54] Even if I'm wrong most of the time, which I am,
[51:59] we talked about it and I feel better about that part of it.
[52:06] Tara Bansal: Are you enjoying this phase? More or less. Than you expected.
[52:13] Steve Toman: I,
[52:14] I am enjoying it.
[52:16] I am enjoying it a lot more, I think, than I, I thought.
[52:20] You know, again,
[52:22] the biggest thing I, that we have going for us at this point is obviously the stage of life we're at right now. Kids are out of the house financially, we've set ourselves up for success through whatever retirement planning.
[52:33] And so I'm not in a panic about like, oh my God, I missed an opportunity to do something to set myself up for success. I mean, success is, is relative.
[52:44] And you know, at this point in my life, I'm just, I'm happy, you know, just if I'm happy in what I'm doing and it brings me some, you know, pleasure in doing it.
[52:52] I never envisioned getting up at 4 o' clock in the morning to go to work and having fun doing it,
[52:58] but I'm doing it and I'm like, I never would have thought that unless I had an opportunity to do it.
[53:02] So,
[53:03] yeah, I,
[53:05] I, I am enjoying it a lot at this point. And, and it's not like I look back, look back and say, oh, I wish I had been doing this 20 years ago.
[53:12] 20 years ago my priorities were different and, and I had other obligations and things that I don't have now.
[53:18] So I'm, I'm fortunate and I'm thankful that I'm able to do the things I'm able to do now. And, and I'll be honest with you, a majority of, of what I, why I can do it now is simply because Kelly is still working.
[53:29] And that does give me a certain amount of guilt because the plan always was that I was going to be the one that would work up to a point, she would retire and then we carry my us on my benefits through, you know, 62.
[53:41] And it didn't work out that way.
[53:42] But at this point, you know, I, I'm, I'm thankful that, that we're at the position we're in and can be there not only because of what we do to, we've done to set ourselves up to this point, but also what Kelly continues to do for both of us.
[53:55] Um, and that is really the, the, the truth of the matter.
[53:59] Tara Bansal: Do you think she would want you to feel guilty?
[54:04] Steve Toman: Oh, God, no. No. And she, she repeatedly has to tell me because again, I worry about these things too much.
[54:10] And, and she, you know, again, she stresses that it's always been a team effort. It still is a team effort. Um, and we will get to and through wherever we need to be as a team.
[54:20] That being said, again, I That's why I want to make sure that I'm out there doing things that are not just to pass the time. I want to. I want to be.
[54:29] Christina Donovan: Not wasting the opportunity.
[54:31] Steve Toman: Exactly. I want to take advantage of the opportunity that I'm being given because I'm blessed to have this opportunity. So, yeah, I want to make the most of it. And not just for me, for both of us.
[54:42] Yeah.
[54:43] Tara Bansal: Do you consider yourself an empty nester and has it been easier or more difficult than you expected?
[54:52] Steve Toman: I'll be honest.
[54:55] Two part question.
[54:57] Do I consider ourselves an empty duster?
[55:00] No, not necessarily.
[55:02] Why?
[55:03] Because the girls are always home at some point or another. You just can't get rid of them.
[55:07] Which is good, because the other part of that question was I didn't realize how quiet the house would be when they're all out of it.
[55:17] And as each girl left, it got progressively more quiet.
[55:21] And when the last one went off to school and it was just Kel and I,
[55:26] I was a little beside myself because I didn't like that. I didn't like not having the commotion and the craziness going on. It was. I was so used to it and I loved it.
[55:37] And.
[55:39] Yeah,
[55:40] so I'm. I'm glad that they still come back a lot because I don't think I'd ever want to be an empty nester, per se. I still want them to be an integral part of our life,
[55:52] even if it's a tad bit disruptive. You know, occasionally. I'll deal with that.
[55:59] Tara Bansal: Very nice.
[56:00] Christina Donovan: Yeah, that sounds nice.
[56:02] Tara Bansal: Has it been harder having them leave than you expected?
[56:06] Steve Toman: Yeah, because honestly, that was one of the things that I never really thought about that much,
[56:10] um,
[56:11] because it was a constant. They were always here, we were always doing something, always running somewhere, always this commotion. And I,
[56:19] you know, for us, I. I just. I never really.
[56:22] I never really processed that far ahead because I. I was just kind of living day to day,
[56:27] like, you know, moment to moment type thing.
[56:30] You know, obviously we planned for, you know, their. Their safety and their protection financially, life insurance, all that kind of stuff, but never really gave a whole lot of thought to them actually leaving.
[56:41] Leaving. And then when they did, I was like, okay, well, I guess that makes sense. They. They have to do that eventually. Believe me. I. We have friends who. They would have their kids live with them forever.
[56:51] And I don't. I would never go to that extreme, first of all, but I understand for their personal growth, they absolutely have to get on and do their life just like we did.
[57:01] But, yeah, I miss It. I do,
[57:04] I do.
[57:05] Tara Bansal: Are most of them close by or not?
[57:07] Steve Toman: They are. They're. They're all in Virginia.
[57:09] Tara Bansal: Okay.
[57:10] Steve Toman: And they're all within three to five hour drive.
[57:14] Tara Bansal: That's nice.
[57:16] Steve Toman: So, yeah, they're close enough to home that if they say, hey, can I call mom this weekend or can I come home on Memorial Day? Well, like, yeah, absolutely. We just gotta make sure we don't have a conflict with other people visiting so we have enough bed space and we're good to go.
[57:29] But yeah, I enjoy when they come home and catching up with them and just kind of enjoying their company again as young adults.
[57:37] Tara Bansal: What legacy do you wish to leave behind?
[57:41] Steve Toman: What legacy do I wish?
[57:44] That's a tough one.
[57:47] I don't know. I guess just kind of.
[57:50] I was a halfway decent dad and loved my wife and,
[57:57] you know, enjoyed myself, enjoyed my life and hopefully made other people's better.
[58:04] Sounds cliche, but. Yeah, I just. I'd like to leave it a little better than I found it.
[58:09] Tara Bansal: That's great. Yeah.
[58:11] Christina Donovan: It's a beautiful legacy. So is. Is there anything we didn't ask that you wish we had?
[58:19] Steve Toman: Hmm.
[58:23] I. You've covered quite a lot of ground.
[58:28] I'm. Like I said, I'm very blessed. The. The.
[58:31] The best thing that I find jumping back to Lafayette. It's funny because,
[58:36] you know, for your education at Lafayette, it's not cheap thing. It wasn't cheap when we went. Certainly not cheap right now.
[58:42] Christina Donovan: Yeah.
[58:43] Steve Toman: And, you know, when I look back,
[58:45] I. I know I. I got into other schools and I could have gone. And you kind of wonder, well, what if I had taken that path? What if I'd taken that road?
[58:52] And I'm glad I picked Lafayette, but not for the education.
[58:56] Kelly.
[58:57] Christina Donovan: Oh, yeah, that's.
[59:01] I know. I.
[59:03] I have a, like, similar thing that I talk about because Matt and Susan, my roommate from college, who Steve is. Knows well, close friend as well,
[59:16] they both were waitlisted at Bowdoin.
[59:18] And I say all the time, like, if they had gotten into Bowdoin and I hadn't met them at Lafayette, my life would be completely different in a way I don't ever want to have to think about, you know?
[59:32] Steve Toman: Yeah. And that's why, you know, people like, would you do anything different in your life? I'm like, not really.
[59:37] Not really.
[59:38] I'm really happy where I'm at,
[59:40] and I'm happy how I got here. I'd love to do it again.
[59:46] Christina Donovan: There's still plenty of time to do.
[59:48] Steve Toman: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[59:50] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Do. Do you Feel like midlife has been messy or hard or, you know, no.
[59:58] Steve Toman: More messy, no harder than. Than a lot of other folks. I mean, we've had it very good.
[01:00:05] We've been very lucky, very blessed. But no, I mean, you know, like, you guys know, I mean, raising a family, there's no instructions or on how to do that.
[01:00:15] You kind of figure that out as you go, and you do the best you can based on the examples you were given and you're with your parents and your families.
[01:00:23] And I'd like to think that that's, you know,
[01:00:26] one of the things that we've all carried forward with our families is we kind of raise them how we were raised,
[01:00:32] and we fight the battles and the. And the challenges that come up while doing that as best we can.
[01:00:39] And there's never a script for it. You just.
[01:00:42] You do the best you can,
[01:00:44] and when you're doing it with a partner, it's so much easier. I cannot even begin to imagine how single parents raise a family sometimes because it's just so challenging for one or two, let alone one.
[01:00:57] You know what I mean? So just like on the ambulance, I'd rather have three people all the time than two.
[01:01:02] But it's not a perfect situation. It's not a perfect world.
[01:01:05] But you work with it. You get through it. You really do.
[01:01:10] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Well, thank you, Steve. This was beautiful and wonderful.
[01:01:15] Christina Donovan: Yeah, it was. It was so reflective and insightful. You were terrific.
[01:01:21] Steve Toman: Thank you. I greatly appreciate the opportunity, and it's fun to talk through these things. I. I enjoy not hearing myself talk, but recount stories because sometimes you don't think about it for a while.
[01:01:35] And this was fun. This is fun.
[01:01:36] Tara Bansal: Yeah. Thank you.
[01:01:38] Steve Toman: Thank you.
[01:01:39] Tara Bansal: Today's recommendation is actually two of my favorite things from Trader Joe's.
[01:01:45] I feel like Trader Joe's is filled with so many unique items,
[01:01:49] and it can be overwhelming to try to find things that you like.
[01:01:55] So here are my two favorites that I hope you'll try next time you're at the store.
[01:02:01] The first was introduced to me by my good friend Mary. I think she served them at a ladies brunch. And right away I was like, I have to get these.
[01:02:11] It's their chocolate croissants.
[01:02:13] They are in the freezer section and are just incredible. I think they rival or are better than the ones I've had from many French bakeries.
[01:02:24] I serve them for holidays and special occasions or. Or when I or my boys want a special treat.
[01:02:31] The only challenging part is that you have to take them out of the freezer the night before in order to let them rise.
[01:02:38] So sometimes I forget.
[01:02:40] But in the morning, if you remember the night before,
[01:02:43] they'll be nicely risen and you just pop them in the oven at 350 degrees for 20 minutes and they are delicious.
[01:02:52] My second favorite item from Trader Joe's is the Mini Dark Chocolate Bars. They are individually wrapped chocolate bars and are sold five bars to a box.
[01:03:03] For me, they're the perfect size and satisfy my desire for something sweet.
[01:03:08] I'm now addicted to them and have one pretty much every day.
[01:03:12] They also sell them a milk chocolate if you prefer that over dark chocolate.
[01:03:18] Both of these items I feel like are very economical for the quality that you get.
[01:03:23] I love them and hope that you'll give them a try if you haven't already.
[01:03:28] Christina Donovan: For show notes and other information about our podcast, please Visit our website messymiddlesence.com if you enjoyed listening, please help spread the word about our podcast by sending a link to a family member or friend.
[01:03:43] And don't forget to leave a positive rating or review for us.
[01:03:47] As always, we hope you will return for more
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Lafayette College (where Steve and Kelly met): https://www.lafayette.edu
Telluride Bluegrass Festival (where Steve and Kelly will return): https://bluegrass.com/telluride
Habitat for Humanity (Steve volunteered briefly): https://www.habitat.org
National Registry of Emergency Medical Technicians (NREMT) (Where Steve earned his EMT certification): https://www.nremt.org
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Trader Joe’s Chocolate Croissants:
https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/frozen-chocolate-croissants-050287Trader Joe’s Mini Dark Chocolate Bars:
https://www.traderjoes.com/home/products/pdp/mini-dark-chocolate-bars-070203 -
Steve Toman was born on May 19, 1968. He graduated from Lafayette College in 1990 with a degree in Business and Economics, where he also met his future wife, Kelly Ayres (Class of ’91). Together, they raised three daughters—Melissa (27), Madelyn (24), and Megan (22)—and have shared their home with five beloved golden retrievers over the years.
Steve spent about 25 years in mortgage banking, working with companies like Weichert Realtors, TIAA-CREF, and TowneBank. His career took him from Long Valley, New Jersey, to Denver, Colorado, and eventually back to Virginia Beach, Virginia.
In 2023, Steve entered semi-retirement and pursued new passions. He worked as a pit master at Bar-Q in Norfolk, VA, for two years and also earned his EMT certification. He now volunteers as an EMT for the City of Virginia Beach and works as a medical transporter for a company called MMT.
These days, Steve loves spending time with his wife, their dogs, and any of their daughters who happen to be visiting. You can often find him walking the dogs, relaxing at the beach, or planning his next travel adventure.