50. Learning about Long Term Care with Victoria Beerer
“If people can walk away with anything from our conversation, it’s to at least have the conversation and have a plan.”
Tina never could have imagined that Long Term Care (LTC) would be a frequent conversation topic within her social circles. But this past year – it seems to come up time and time again. It makes sense. As we move through middle age, many of us are watching our parents or other loved ones age. We begin to observe firsthand both the benefits of possessing long-term care coverage and the potential risks associated with lacking it.
The overall topic of LTC can feel daunting. It touches health, money, independence, and the uncomfortable reality that none of us are immune to aging. It is all too easy to put off thinking about and planning for this stage. It was the result of these recurring conversations with her peers as well as her own ignorance on this topic, that Tina proposed this as an episode for Messy Middlescence.
Tara, through her work as a financial planner, knew the perfect person to demystify this topic and answer common questions. Victoria Beerer is the Long Term Care Specialist at Rambart-Hilb Agency, and brings her 15+ years of experience and knowledge with Long Term Care to help us understand what LTC really is, how it works, and what has changed over the past 20 years.
Most importantly, Victoria shares why starting the conversation earlier matters more than most of us realize. The information Victoria provides in this episode is both comprehensive and straightforward. Regardless of where LTC is on your radar, you will not regret tuning in for this episode.
Topics discussed today include:
What Long-Term Care actually covers and what it does not;
The difference between mortality (life insurance) and morbidity (LTC)
Why underwriting for LTC is often stricter than life insurance and some of the possible reasons people are denied LTC;
Traditional vs. hybrid LTC policies — and why products have evolved;
What are the 4 key parts to a Long Term Care Policy;
When to start the conversation (hint: earlier than you think);
Why statistics around LTC can be misleading;
The biggest misconceptions (Medicare does not cover extended custodial care) about LTC;
How to think about self-funding vs. transferring risk;
What happens when one spouse needs care and the other remains at home;
Why “something is better than nothing”
The benefits of working with a knowledgeable agent
The first steps in purchasing a LTC policy
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Christina Donovan: Welcome to Messy Middle Essence. This is a podcast where we talk honestly about the changes to challenges, connections and gifts that come with midlife. Nothing too polished, just real conversations that remind us we're not alone. So let's dive in.
Tara Bansal: Hello. Hello.
This is Tara Conti Bantzel, and I am here with my sister, Christina Conti Donovan.
And we have a real treat for you today.
We have Victoria Bearer.
She is the senior vice president of Rampart Agency.
I got to meet Victoria, I think a couple of years ago,
and she is just a joy to talk to and be with.
And so I've met her through Princeton Global and working as a financial planner,
and she is the director of long term care for her firm.
And Tina was the one that actually brought this up as a topic for us on Messy Middlescence that several of her friends and just. It's been a topic of conversation.
And I do feel like it's an important topic in midlife that we are going through either for ourselves and, or for our parents.
And so I asked Victoria if she was willing to come on to Messy Middlescence and she graciously said yes. So welcome, Victoria. We're thrilled to have you here.
Victoria Beerer: Thank you both. I greatly appreciate the opportunity to come and talk. It's so nice to be here.
Tara Bansal: We always start with our first question, just like, what would you like people to know about you and your background and how you got where you are both personally and professionally?
Victoria Beerer: You got it.
So I think my story is a little unique. I work at a general agency and we really focus on life and long term care, insurance and disability.
It was my father's company, so he had started the agency maybe 28 years ago at this point.
And when I came on,
he needed someone to really learn the long term care business. That's what we were missing down in our area. Our partners were up in New York.
So when I came on,
that was kind of my passion to, to learn about the products.
I will say over the last 15 years, the, the long term care world has changed dramatically.
The products have changed dramatically.
My father has since retired,
but it's been kind of that family business. Along the way I work with my brother. Our staff has all been here longer than me. I think I'm the. The newest person there after 15 years.
So it's kind of a family business through and through.
You know, since then, my personal life transitioned, you know, after 15 years.
Married,
kids, all that good stuff.
So I never would have thought that I'd be in the insurance world. But my dad Just thought it was such an important piece of planning.
And when he brought me on, the long term care piece just seemed like a tremendous area that no one talked about that people did not plan for and was so critical.
So that is how I got here. And it's been great to meet different agents, get them excited about talking with their clients on long term care.
So that's, that's kind of a little bit about myself.
Tara Bansal: What, what is a general agency for those. What does that mean?
Victoria Beerer: Yeah, absolutely. A general agency is not captive to one company.
So when I'm talking about different products,
we have multiple carriers that we can go to. I'm not pushing a specific company,
carrier or product.
We really focus on for this specific client. What's the best company product underwriting price. So we have access to many different insurance companies when you're working with me.
Tara Bansal: So you'll like shop around.
Victoria Beerer: Exactly.
Tara Bansal: Present the different options and present the best options that you think fit the.
Victoria Beerer: Need of the client, Is that exactly okay? That is correct.
Tara Bansal: And were you given long term care as an assignment or was it something that you were interested in?
Victoria Beerer: It was the one area in our agency that we didn't have a specialist and my dad really saw the need for, for someone to go out and talk with different agents about the products.
And I said, yeah, I'm in, I want to do that. I agree that this product is under talked about.
Not enough people have it and people are curious about it there. You say it's coming up a ton in conversations as people are aging,
but it's still a product that people don't have. It's a very small percentage. So it was, it was an assignment but now it's more of a passion project.
Tara Bansal: What did you do before insurance?
Victoria Beerer: I did sales for a telecommunications company for 10 years. So it was a completely different,
different field,
but it was a bigger company and I thought it was great because when I graduated college they did a lot of training.
So it was that sales 101 training, how to talk with people,
how to go out, how to make phone calls. So it transitioned into every job that I've had.
Tara Bansal: That's great. Yeah, I think a lot of those are great skills. Yeah, yeah,
no denying that.
So tell us like what is long term care and when should we start thinking about it?
Victoria Beerer: Absolutely.
So long term care, you'll hear it called extended care a lot because I think when people hear long term care insurance they immediately think Alzheimer's or dementia and nursing home.
And it has definitely grown way beyond that. So when I'm talking with clients. The way that I explain it is extended care is when people are living with a chronic illness or they're, they're at the point where they're needing supervision for a cognitive issue.
So it's not something that's going to be like a quick illness. This is something that's going to last longer than 90 days and people need help.
So the long term care insurance will kick in. I say think of it as a money that you've put aside that will help pay for your care. At that point,
the insurance is for your family to help oversee your care and to take away from them being your primary caregiver,
if that makes sense.
So it provides a monthly benefit to help paid for care.
It can be in your home.
I would say most people, when they first get sick and need help, they want to remain in their home, in their community as long as possible.
So it's home care all the way up to what you're thinking. Skilled, full nursing home.
The big question,
when do I get it?
When's the best time to get it? That's a really hard one because we don't have a crystal ball. So what I'll say is back when I first started,
this was really a conversation when people were retiring.
So it was, it was pushed out to,
to late 60s.
Now the carriers are wanting the conversation to happen a lot sooner. The pricing,
the underwriting, they're, they're wanting people in their late 40s, 50s, 60s.
Talking about this product and getting it, you're never as young and healthy as you are right now is really the answer to it.
So most of the time people younger aren't thinking about it, unless like you two ladies, you've had conversations or you've watched family and friends go through it where they're either caring for a loved one or dealing with the financial burden of someone being sick.
Tara Bansal: For the pricing, is it just gradual or are there like certain, like when you hit 60 that it suddenly jumps up or is it, I wonder.
Victoria Beerer: So the way that the pricing works, it is based on your attained age. So if someone's getting long term care insurance at age 45, it's going to be much less expensive than for someone that's 60.
But it also factors in that we can play around with the benefits.
You can get kind of a middle of the road policy or you can get extensive benefits which is also going to change the pricing.
So depending on how much money the insurance company is going to pay per month. So if someone's getting a $4,000 a month benefit for three years.
That's going to be less expensive than if they're going to pay $8,000 a month of benefits.
So age is a huge factor.
The pricing does not increase year to year.
But with traditional long term care,
I tell people, think of it like health insurance,
they can come back and do a rate increase,
you know, across the board and say, you know, for, for these types of policies, we're increasing the pricing by X amount. So it's not a static cost, but it doesn't happen every year.
Tara Bansal: Mm.
Christina Donovan: I mean, this may just. I think all my questions are gonna sound super ignorant, so I'm gonna apologize.
Victoria Beerer: There's no silly questions.
Christina Donovan: I mean, if you purchase a long term care policy,
is there a certain age where it becomes like active or as soon as you purchase it, you have access to the benefits if you need them 100%.
Victoria Beerer: The minute that you start paying and the policy goes in force, if you get sick in two months, you have access to those benefits.
Christina Donovan: Okay.
Victoria Beerer: Yeah.
Christina Donovan: So it's not like I have to.
Victoria Beerer: Be over 65 or 70 or. Okay. Not at all. No.
Think of it. You know, I always say the worst case scenario that people think with long term care insurance is dementia, Alzheimer's,
something, something like that. But I give real life examples too.
For someone younger that could need it, say you got into a car accident,
you've broken both legs, you've broken your arm,
you are not going to be able to do kind of your normal activities of daily living.
So if you're unable to do two of your activities of daily living, think of them as what you would do when you get up and go to bed.
Being able to transfer in and out of bed, eating, bathing,
all of those things. If you can't do them, the policy can kick in. As long as the issues are going to persist for longer than three months,
you're able to recover.
So even younger people can have accidents or health concerns where this can kick in. So you don't have to wait for,
for a certain age for the benefits.
Tara Bansal: And I think of,
tell me where I'm wrong. But I think of like within the policy.
It could be it doesn't kick in for 90 days or longer. Like you could, can you even choose longer than that?
Victoria Beerer: Or is the standard you can, but 90 days is the standard. So if we want to just real high level what the factors are in the policy and they kind of go across the board.
No matter what type of policy that we're getting,
you have,
if I go unclean and need care.
How much money is the insurance company going to pay per month?
How many years is the benefit going to pay?
What's the deductible or elimination period that you just brought up? 90 days is industry standard.
And are we putting a cola on it? A cost of living accelerator where the money's growing at a 3% rate each year and that that's kind of the costly portion of the policy because the carrier's on the hook for making that money grow each year.
So those are the four key parts of the policy to go back to the elimination period. It's like what people are used to with a deductible.
Once you are approved on claim, you start getting care. The clock starts ticking for 90 days before the insurance carrier will kick in.
Christina Donovan: You're quite how to ask this but like if I purchase a policy.
Tara Bansal: Is.
Christina Donovan: This something that I will.
Is there a finite cost where like I pay for it and then I'm finished? Or is this I will pay for it every month for the life of.
Tara Bansal: The policy until you need it.
Christina Donovan: Does that make sense?
Victoria Beerer: That, that Absolutely. That's a great question. So that transitions into what are the products out there and what has really transpired in the long term care industry.
So, so I'll give you kind of the breakdown. Let's start with the traditional long term care that people really think of. It's what people bought 20 years ago.
It's the, the gen worth that people hear those type of policies,
you pay until you use it or you pass away.
So it is one of those where if you're 50 and you get it and you might not possibly use it till you're in your 80s, you've been paying for it that whole time.
What has really shifted is the hybrid or, or asset protection type products that are combining life insurance and long term care.
And let me tell you why they've gotten popular.
People want to feel as if they're going to get something for their money.
You know we're very comfortable having to pay auto insurance,
homeowners, things that you need to pay but you, you hope you don't use them but you have to pay and you're covered. God forbid something happens. And that's really what long term care, the traditional long term care insurance is you're paying, hoping you never use it and if you don't use it,
there is nothing at the end you paid to be covered in case you needed care.
These hybrid products are giving people a use because you, you know you're either going to need care or at some point in your life you're going to pass away.
So if you have the life and long term care kind of combination product,
if you never need extended care,
then that death benefit is there to pay out to your loved ones.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Yeah.
Tara Bansal: I view it as like people view they're going to get something,
they're going to get something.
The money they put in either the care and, or you know, a death benefit. And I think people think of that as better.
You know they do.
Christina Donovan: I mean they actually raised the cost of it because now when they're pricing it, I mean they, it cuts into.
Victoria Beerer: There bottom line or their problem,
it absolutely can increase the cost. They say when you're combining two different products and two different protection needs, the pricing can be higher because they're covering two costs. They're covering morbidity and mortality which is the life in the LTC piece.
So it really depends on the client's age, what they're looking to accomplish.
That's all part of the planning process that, that I like to help you with when you're working with a client is really narrowing down what is important to them,
what their price point is, what they can afford. Because I do feel like having something in place is always better than not. No one is going to call you and say geez, I'm so upset that I'm getting a $4,000 a month check from my parents for their long term care.
No, they're thrilled at that point that they got something. Maybe it doesn't cover everything but it's really helping out.
When the time comes.
Tara Bansal: And do more of the hybrid products. Are they more lump sum or are they also like you pay or is.
Victoria Beerer: It both where you pay? They have both options. So there, there's a couple different options.
I would say that they've morphed into more flex pays. So when they first came out and they've been out for a while now,
they were a single pay option for these asset protection products. So you know, banks were selling a lot of them. They saw where people had money in,
you know, CD money markets, they would just move $100,000 over a 1 time pay. It would leverage the money for the long term care and the client was done. There was nothing they needed to joke.
So now I would say on those type of products I probably do more of a 10 pay because it, it helps younger people who are high earners but they might not have those huge lumps of money sitting right now.
But if you kind of portion it out $10,000 a year, they, they can handle that financially. And then in 10 years the policy is paid up, it's guaranteed for those type of products.
The leverage again is on the long term care. So the death benefit is pretty much going to be the premium that they've paid.
But if they need extended care,
especially if you're younger, the leverage is going to be about four times the amount of what they put in.
So people feel as if they're again getting something.
They, they have a huge pot of money if they need care,
if they never need it, their loved ones will at least get what they put in. And there's an exit strategy. If they decide,
I no longer want this, I want to take my money back, they can get a big portion of that back as well. So that's why those have become popular.
Tara Bansal: If you're doing a 10 pay and something happens during that time period, what happens then?
Victoria Beerer: It depends on the carrier. So some would require to finish paying off,
others do not. So it really does depend. And that's part of the conversation I'm a big proponent of.
There's not a one size fits all and there's not a,
this policy is better as long as the client knows what they're getting and we explain it in that instance. Okay. For this policy,
they're not going to make you finish paying the premiums for this one. You have to finish paying it so that all the benefits stay exactly what we showed.
So it just depends.
Okay.
Tara Bansal: And I feel like from my side talking that more people are not going with the traditional long term care as much because of this threat or the idea of like I will and I have some clients like they've paid into rating for,
for so, so long and then you have this 75 or 80 year old and suddenly the premium has jumped up significantly and they're a little resentful because they're like, I paid this money and now is when I may need it.
And now it feels like it's almost outside of my financial.
Victoria Beerer: Absolutely right now. Now they're trying to lower the costs and lower their bills.
Right. They're, they're not no longer working, they're in retirement. And that is a problem.
That is why it's morphed into these hybrids.
Yeah, the rate increases.
Especially when you look at bigger companies like Genworth. What happened was kind of a perfect storm. They, they made the policies very inexpensive.
They, they had very robust benefits that people were getting. And the underwriting wasn't as stringent as it is now.
So what happened? They they couldn't keep up with,
with all the claims because very few people, less than 1% really give up their policies once they get them and, and they use them.
So the life with the long term care does give a little bit more leeway of knowing what you're going to pay.
People also put long term care riders, you know the, the secret option number three where you can just get a regular permanent life insurance product and put a long term care rider on that.
So what that does is depending on what face amount the carrier will just prepay that money if someone gets sick.
So there are so many new products that people can use.
And I think you were asking what do I want people to know? I think if people can walk away with anything from our conversation is to at least have the conversation and have a plan.
If their plan is I'm going to pay out of pocket, that's okay.
But they really need to think it through and have a set plan because many people do not factor in costs of extended care into their retirement plan.
And then, then it's a gaping hole.
Tara Bansal: And for those that are even contemplating or thinking of paying for it themselves, how do they estimate those costs?
Victoria Beerer: I mean it depends on the area that you live and the type of cost.
As you know, I mean our area is expensive. People could be paying 10 to $15,000.
Tara Bansal: A month depending on Victoria's in Doylestown. Just like I do feel like we're, we're in the northeast.
Victoria Beerer: Yeah, Northeast corridor. Yes.
Tara Bansal: Expense, it's expensive to live here.
Victoria Beerer: It is, yeah. So I mean it could be less, especially if it's home care. But even factoring in a $10,000 a month type of bill,
where is that money coming from? So having that conversation and at least having that plan,
so thinking family can take care of me, that that might not be a feasible plan.
They might not live in the area,
they may still be working or have kids they're taking care of. So it's, it's all of those conversations to figure out what would happen if we really did need care, where is it coming from, who's providing the care, where do we want to be.
Tara Bansal: And when? I know, I already know the answer to this, but when should we start having these conversations and what's the best way to go about that?
Victoria Beerer: There's never a better time than the present,
I would say. I mean you're, listen, you're not going to talk to a 20 or 30 year old about long term care, but when people are getting into their,
their later 40s, you can absolutely. Start talking about especially the hybrid plans that are combining the life insurance and long term care.
So I would say 50s is really the sweet spot.
But I've done younger and we've certainly done older.
Tara Bansal: Okay,
what about kids want to buy it for their parents that can't afford it and they know their parents may need help and they're worried about that being a financial strain on them.
How do you recommend that and how do you go about it?
Victoria Beerer: I guess they can absolutely do that. I think the biggest factor is insurability because it's not easy to get long term care. So the.
Tara Bansal: Can you talk a little bit about that?
Christina Donovan: Yeah.
Tara Bansal: But as a process around insurability and.
Victoria Beerer: How that's a,
that's a great segue into it because I think one of the hardest conversations that I have is when someone's finally ready to sit down,
plan for extended care if they ever need it, it's too late. They already have health issues that,
that knock them out from getting it.
So I had mentioned how the carriers were a little bit easier on underwriting years ago. And I think as they've seen over 30, 40 years, the claim process,
they've tightened it up.
So for long term care it is very different what their concerns are versus life insurance.
So I have people that can get insured for life insurance, but they get declined for long term care and they're always a little confused about that.
It's mortality versus morbidity.
Long term care is concerned about is this issue going to cause a claim down the line as opposed to is this going to kill you?
So my, my big examples,
and this is just kind of the normal part of aging that people go through joint issues,
back issues,
physical therapy, all of those can be a hurdle for long term care. If people are getting injections,
if they've had multiple joint replacements, if they have major back issues that,
that they're not able to get around, arthritis, all of these things can be an issue.
So the earlier you start planning,
you try to catch it before all of those things come into play.
Christina Donovan: I mean, would you say there are people in their 50s that get denied because of pre existing conditions or.
Victoria Beerer: I mean, absolutely.
The carrier's looking at the overall health. Right. So they look at the build, the height and the weight,
medications.
Is there cardiac issues?
Is there anything else?
Christina Donovan: So if you apply for long term care, I mean basically you have to provide a physician's report or do they get access to your medical records?
Victoria Beerer: Yep. So initially they will ask a ton of questions up front.
They will go and get primary records. A lot of the time, if they can't get, you know, the electronic records that are online.
So they are looking at your history, they're looking at your prescription check.
So they're doing a thorough job on the back end through underwriting. So, right. All of the health history comes into play.
Tara Bansal: I have diabetes. Is that something that kind of disqualifies you or it would raise your price.
Victoria Beerer: Or it, it could. So I know diabetes pretty well. So I can kind of rattle off like what would be a concern and what wouldn't.
So if it's been diagnosed for more than 20 years,
meaning like type 1 diabetes, that's going to be a problem if someone is uncontrolled, meaning their A1C is high even though they're taking medication.
Insulin over a certain unit can be a concern. So yes, depending on all of those factors, it could be a decline.
Tara Bansal: Okay.
Victoria Beerer: Or, or it might not. So there are a ton of people living with type 2 diabetes where it's very controlled.
They, they're not taking insulin.
If all other factors are okay, they're bill. There's not any other comorbid issues. We'd be okay. So I try to help a lot on the back end when we're dealing with clients if we know they have these type of issues.
I feel like it is so important for me to try to see if there's any huge red flags. The worst thing you want to do is put someone through all this where we would have known that they were a decline from the get go and it would have saved them a lot of time.
So I try to help and if it's above my skill set, I go informally to the underwriters at the carriers and kind of give the, the full summary of the background to see whether the client should submit an application.
Okay.
Tara Bansal: I.
This may no longer be true, but I felt like back in the day, so maybe too long ago,
if you applied as a couple,
it was often easier to get approved than just as one person. Is that still true?
Victoria Beerer: No, it's not easier to get approved. They. They underwrite everyone. But you do get some discounts. So as a couple.
As a couple, you'll get some discounts. And, and even there's discounts for being part of a couple, even if one person is applying and they're very lenient with what they consider a couple.
So it's basically people that are, you know, it doesn't matter if it's husband and wife, a wife and wife, as long as they're living together. And sharing expenses that that counts as a spousal discount.
Tara Bansal: And sometimes one spouse, one will get approved and the other will not.
Victoria Beerer: It happens actually quite a lot where one will get approved or we already know that one is not going to get approved. So we just focus on the spouse that can get approved.
Tara Bansal: Tina, what other questions?
Victoria Beerer: Yeah, well.
Christina Donovan: So let's say my husband. After this conversation, my husband and I decide we need to start moving on this. Like what's the first step? Is it contacting an agent like you?
Is it just even doing research online?
Like what's the process for going through,
I guess, you know, finding a policy?
Victoria Beerer: Absolutely. So I would love to say that I'm really the first line of defense. I'm a great person to start with because what we'll do is we'll chat a little bit just about your age and your health and then I'll go through kind of the three different products.
We'll talk about if you have a price point and then I can run some preliminary options where we really dial down what makes sense for you.
So working with a knowledgeable agent as opposed to going online,
it's going to be confusing. There is a lot of information and there's a lot of different products out there. So I do get people that like to Google and then I try to really walk through what they found and give them how everything works.
So I think either myself or a trusted agent.
Tara Bansal: I mean I'll jump in here. I feel like it's great to have that a knowledgeable guide. Right. Like of what to.
So you, Victoria, can filter out the noise, talk to them.
How long,
like how much time is it like if they sit down with you?
Oh, how long is the conversation and how long does it usually take?
Victoria Beerer: Yeah, the conversation isn't, isn't too crazy. I would say a half hour initially just to answer questions, go through products and then there's always a couple follow up calls. This is usually not a one call close situation because we're going through different products,
we're narrowing down again, there's not a one size fits all. So there's usually a couple calls I do where they've come up with a couple questions or oh, my neighbor has this, what do you think about that?
Type scenario and we kind of filter down.
So once we've really narrowed down the product and benefits that we want,
then it moves on to the application piece. And that doesn't take long. Honestly. They're all online applications.
We sit on a call and in, you know, 25 minutes I have Everything filled out, ready to go.
And that's when it gets to the carrier. And they're going to want to do a phone interview,
possibly a face to face.
We're getting into the logistics because each carrier is a little bit different on do they require, you know, a paramedic exam? Do they just do a phone interview? But that's all of the stuff that I prep agents and clients for when we've picked a product so they know what comes next.
What are the next steps? Once we submit the application,
do some.
Tara Bansal: Of them require like a blood draw or anything like that?
Victoria Beerer: Some of the life with the long term care do.
Tara Bansal: Okay.
Victoria Beerer: Yep.
Tara Bansal: So that's more life usually related.
Victoria Beerer: Yeah. There's one traditional carrier that, that can possibly require it. Mutual Omaha is our, our bigger standalone carrier and they do not require an exam. They require that the clients have been to their primary and done a full blood workup within the last 24 months.
Tara Bansal: Okay.
Christina Donovan: And then I mean once you have.
Victoria Beerer: Your policy.
Christina Donovan: I mean, God forbid you suddenly need it. I mean do you work with the agent to like, once it kind of.
Tara Bansal: Kicks in, yeah, something happened. What do you have a policy and something happens. Victoria, what, what are the actions then?
Victoria Beerer: The next steps are really, your primary doctor is going to be the first line of defense with writing a plan of care and confirming. Yes, you,
you cannot do two of your six activities of daily living or.
I agree that there's, there's supervision needed for cognitive issues. So once that's established and we want to go to the carrier and put in a claim,
the carrier actually will assign claims coordinator.
So whether it's the agent or the family that's calling, there's going to be paperwork to fill out. The doctors are going to fill stuff out and that's how you get the ball rolling for the claim process.
Tara Bansal: And that call is to the company that you have the policy with?
Victoria Beerer: Absolutely. Yeah. Once your primary doctor agrees and everyone's kind of on board that we're at the point where we need this policy to kick in to help pay for care,
then you have to go to the carrier that the policy was written through to start that process.
Okay.
Christina Donovan: I mean if you've been. I don't know if you can answer this, but let's say you've been in some type of long term facility and then you move into like a hospice.
Victoria Beerer: Is hospice covered under your hospice is covered? Yes. Okay. There's a hospice clause. Absolutely. Yeah. So the traditional LTC policies have,
have a bunch that's within the policy.
All of Them have a hospice clause, but traditional policies have a little bit more bells and whistles when it comes to maybe home renovations and things like that. And that stuff you dive deeper in when we've figured out which policy it is.
But they all cover hospice care.
Tara Bansal: So that's part of like as you said in the beginning, like the different, I think of them as levers. But like how long do you want the policy to be in place?
Like how,
yeah.
How much per month for a benefit will they pay?
Victoria Beerer: And that, that's all contingent on what the client's comfortable paying from a premium standpoint. I know one big thing people ask me is why do, why do we think that so many people don't have long term care policies?
And this goes hand in hand, the misconceptions that come along with what pays for long term care. So we tend to think this isn't going to happen to me. Right.
So I don't ever use statistics with clients because if you say 70% of people over 65 will need care,
the person sitting there thinks they're part of the 30%. Right. So, so it's hard to think that you're ever going to be that person that is going care.
Tara Bansal: Is that a real number?
Victoria Beerer: Is that, I mean that's the statistic that they, they put out.
I don't know what factors into that. Again, I, I kind of take it with a grain of salt. But listen, we're, we're dealing with advancements in medicine. People are living much longer.
And what happens when people live longer? Eventually sometimes they just need help. Even if it's getting around when, when they get older, they're, they're falling. It's not safe. So hard to say how accurate that is.
But that's the number that they, they put around for that, that people are going to need it.
I think again going with I'm not going to need this or I don't want to pay for it because I'm not going to use it is a big one.
Misconceptions are that I can just self funds Medicare or my health insurance is going to pay for it.
Unfortunately for extended care, this type of care we're talking about where people are coming into your home and providing care, you're going to a skilled facility that's out of the realm.
That's not the normal coverage that your health insurance or Medicare is going to pay for.
And paying out of pocket, again I've said it before, is okay. If people truly understand the amount of money that they're going to have to come up with and how quickly that will deplete their retirement nest egg and affect the rest of the family that that still might be needing their everyday money for their life.
Yeah.
Tara Bansal: Are those the biggest misconceptions that you feel like?
Victoria Beerer: I think those are the biggest,
biggest misconceptions. Or that you can get it at any age. I mean, I do have people call when they're already very sick,
almost 80 years old, thinking that it's just like any other insurance you can kind of sign up for not realizing that they're, they're screening the health history and people can get declined for this coverage.
Tara Bansal: The one thing I always think about is that when one spouse needs to go into a skilled nursing care, they've reached that level. I do think most people try to stay in their home as long as possible,
but once that is no longer possible,
that often the couple is basically paying for two homes. Right. Like, and one of them is extraordinarily expensive.
And so that, that is a real financial burden that oftentimes people don't really think about.
Victoria Beerer: Right. Because the person that's still healthy and still in their original home,
they're, they're using all of their money to help pay for that care in that, in that facility.
It's a, it's a drain, it's a burden. And the, the biggest piece of long term care insurance is to try to take some of the financial emotional burden away from the family and the person that's sick.
Because at the time it's already extremely stressful when someone's going through such a health crisis and then on top of it, it's,
where will we get the money to cover payment for this type of service?
Tara Bansal: And what I'm trying to think how to. So usually you have to need help with two activities of daily living at least.
Victoria Beerer: Correct?
Tara Bansal: Correct. So is there a minimum amount for like someone to come into your home to help?
Victoria Beerer: No, it's just. You mean a minimum amount of time?
Tara Bansal: Like, yeah. Like, what if they only felt like they needed help?
Like one. I'm just thinking of like a very petite woman whose husband needs help and cannot help him.
They then get ready in the morning so she feels like, I only need help for one hour in the morning.
Victoria Beerer: Or one hour at night?
Absolutely. I think a lot of the home healthcare agencies that are coming in are doing those custodial things.
They're helping get someone up to go to the bathroom,
get them in and out of the shower, make sure they're taking their meds, cooking, cleaning those custodial needs are covered under this product.
And again,
you're not talking 24, 7 home care because that's going to be expensive. That's going to be extremely expensive. They're coming in for a couple hours to,
to help with those things and.
Tara Bansal: It would cover just those couple. I guess I kind of view it that. But then does that start the clock ticking on your three years? That.
Victoria Beerer: Yeah. Once you put the claim in and once you're trying to get reimbursed for the healthcare agency coming in to help with that kind of stuff, that's when your policy is getting kind of whittled down.
Yeah.
Tara Bansal: Okay.
Victoria Beerer: All right.
Tara Bansal: Because the other. I think of two actually. Yeah. I mean I didn't know if you have this like pot of money that you've purchased and if they only come in for a couple hours,
you're only spending, you know, a small.
Victoria Beerer: It's a pot of, it's a pot of money that you can't go over the monthly benefit.
So if they're only coming in a couple hours each day, then it's going to only whittle down your monthly by X.
So you don't have to necessarily use, use your full monthly amount each month. It depends on how much you're getting care. So if you don't use the full monthly amount,
say it's $5000 a month and one month you only use $3000.
That $2000 will just make the policy go out a little bit longer. So if the company was going to pay for four years, it'll go out four years and a month.
So you're never losing the benefit.
I did it. No,
unless you started it.
Tara Bansal: You only had those that time period. But it sounds like it's kind of like a calculation of that much time that month is your bucket that you pot.
Victoria Beerer: I always help people think of it as a pot of money where you can't exceed whatever that,
that limit is per month.
But you're not going to lose it. It'll just carry over.
Tara Bansal: So it will carry over if you don't use it. Okay, that helps. I didn't know it's.
Christina Donovan: It sounds as though there's been big changes in the last 10, 20 years. I mean, do you see it continuing to change in terms of the products and the,
the things that are available to people?
Victoria Beerer: I don't know if I think that it'll continue to change. I think combining the, the life with the long term care,
there's a few annuities now that have long term care benefits. I Don't know how much more it can evolve and change.
I think more and more people will go towards those hybrid products.
Who knows what the carriers will do. I don't know if some of the traditional carriers will, will figure out a way to do shorter pays where people won't get the rate increases.
Because I think that's a lot of the,
the trepidation with getting policies like that.
So that, that's a hard one to say.
Tara Bansal: Yeah.
Christina Donovan: And can you buy a policy with.
Tara Bansal: A locked in rate?
Victoria Beerer: So for the traditional policies, like I said,
they're just,
you pay each year, but they can come back and do a rate increase.
National Guardian Life, they're another carrier I have on the traditional side. They do offer a 10 pay.
Now it's expensive obviously to pay everything up in 10 years, but they cannot come back if you do the 10 pay and do a rate increase. So that is essentially locked in.
But if you do their, their annual lifetime pay,
they can do that.
A lot of the, the hybrid policies, after the 10 years, you are locked in, you're locked in from the get go, but you're paying for 10 years and you have to do that.
And then you have your life insurance policies that have a rider. And that's a, that's a whole other conversation because it really depends on the permanent policy you get,
if it's guaranteed or if it's interest sensitive,
how the company is performing.
So we go through and really walk through the options.
Yeah,
it's a lot.
It is, it is a lot and it's overwhelming. That's why it's so good to sit down and have these conversations before it's crisis mode, before someone's sick.
And at that point we can't get insurance. And now it's everyone really scrambling to figure out a plan.
Christina Donovan: Is it even possible to buy a policy without going through an agent?
I mean, I don't understand why you would want to given everything that you've just described. I'm just curious.
Victoria Beerer: I'm sure you can go. Yeah. If you called,
the company might even assign you to someone that they have. I'm not really sure how easy it would be. Now on the life insurance side, you can absolutely do that.
There's a million tools online that you can go and do that and they might have some riders that you can pick. But for some of these other policies,
they're going to require an agent that's signing off on them.
For people who already have a policy.
Tara Bansal: What advice do you have for what they should review or be aware of as they age.
Victoria Beerer: Mm.
So I, I probably get a phone call once a week from someone who's had a policy for 20 plus years.
They. They just got their lovely rate increase and it's like, what can we do?
And although I, I always look at it and I always try to figure it out, it comes to the same conclusion. You are now 20 years older.
The pricing has changed so dramatically for newer policies that even with the rate increases that people have gotten along the way, it's typically still a better product and premium to keep that.
What I will say is, have people altered their benefits? So if a carrier really comes back with.
With a huge increase,
they're giving options or the client has options to mitigate that cost,
whether it's lower a benefit year, lower what monthly benefit they would get, remove that inflation piece that makes the money grow.
There's ways to mitigate the cost.
It is really hard if a product is 15, 20 years old for us to replace it. It just, it never works because they're. Their attained age is so much higher and we don't know what their health is at that point.
Can they get through underwriting?
So we do have those conversations and we're always happy to help,
but 9 out of 10 times the policy they have is probably the best bet. They might just have to tweak it.
Tara Bansal: Yeah. That they'll make changes to try to decrease the premium too.
Victoria Beerer: Exactly.
Tara Bansal: In a way that they're comfortable with. I agree with that. Absolutely.
Victoria Beerer: Yeah.
Tara Bansal: So what advice would you give to those of us in our 40s, 50s and 60s about preparing for this stage of life?
Victoria Beerer: I think we've mentioned it before, but my advice is just to have that conversation either with a trusted agent, a financial planner,
really sitting down and figuring out if I plan to live a long life and I ever need care,
where is that 6 to 10,000amonth coming from?
Where do I want to receive care and who's providing it?
So figuring out those factors and then maybe taking the next step to figure out if getting insurance is viable. Can. Can you afford it and can you get through underwriting?
Those would be the biggest steps that I hope people take away is just to think about what their plan would be.
Mm.
Tara Bansal: And I loved your advice of, to me, like, something is better than nothing and almost to know what your options are of what. Because I think that's the other is some people just say I can't afford it.
So they don't even look into it or ask those questions.
Victoria Beerer: Yeah.
Christina Donovan: They're just sort of in denial.
Victoria Beerer: Like I'm just gonna pretend.
Tara Bansal: This isn't.
Christina Donovan: Gonna happen to me or.
Tara Bansal: Yeah.
So I mean one,
we have a lot of single people and, or you know, couples that don't have children.
And I'm always like, what is your plan? Like if you don't have long term care.
Victoria Beerer: And even when people have children do,
do they have the buy in or the wherewithal to be your caregiver? Because I think that's a conversation to be had as well.
Tara Bansal: One, I think a lot of parents don't want to do that to their children. I know that's how Tinas and my parents were very aware and that that was super important to them was they didn't want to be that burden on their children.
Victoria Beerer: I think that's the biggest thing. We don't want to be a burden to our children.
Tara Bansal: You've spent so much energy helping them become independent.
Victoria Beerer: Exactly, exactly.
I agree. But that would be my advice is just to at least have a discussion about it, have a plan,
don't wait until it's too late where there's already health concerns. If you really are interested in having coverage.
Tara Bansal: Start the conversation.
Victoria Beerer: Yeah, start the conversation. Yeah.
Tara Bansal: Tina, any other questions?
Christina Donovan: No. I mean I can't believe an hour went by.
I just.
Everything you said, Victoria was just so helpful, so interesting and I don't know, it's, it's such a huge topic and I just,
I'm so grateful to have gotten the information you gave.
You have no idea how much it helped me.
Victoria Beerer: Oh, I appreciate that so much. It is a hot topic.
I will say more and more people are curious and more interested to learn more about it and hear more about it. So I'm so glad that it was helpful and gave you some basic information that you can mull over.
Tara Bansal: One last question. Any big warnings?
Victoria Beerer: I would say always stay with a rated carriers that are reputable.
We only represent carriers that are a rated or better so we know that financially their okay is going to be around.
Tara Bansal: Yeah, I think that that's part of what I like. Some people may not even know that.
Victoria Beerer: Considering if they're not in the insurance world that's, that's not something that's in their own. Absolutely. But yeah, when, when you're working with agents that, that's a big piece. Our agency only represents a rated or better.
So if, if you're working with us, we're giving you carriers that are financially sustainable.
Tara Bansal: We will put your information in our show notes. Do,
does do most people look for long term care specialists like you that Are local or can you help people all across the country?
Victoria Beerer: Oh gosh. I'm appointed and I don't even know how many states.
So a lot of times now, especially within the Hill organization,
I'm doing teams calls with people all across the US so.
Tara Bansal: Okay, it doesn't. Because that was my other question is.
Christina Donovan: That was my question too. Yeah.
Tara Bansal: Where should people try to find someone like you? If.
Victoria Beerer: Yeah, yeah. As long as they're comfortable not having like a sit down and doing something over a teams or zoom call and phone calls, we can, we can help you.
Tara Bansal: And if they do want someone local that they can meet with face to face, what how do they look for someone like you?
Victoria Beerer: If I would say a lot of times their financial planners probably have an insurance specialist they work with or I can, you know, if it's somewhere that I know, I can, you know, give a recommendation if I know someone in the area.
Tara Bansal: Yeah, I think that's wonderful. Well, thank you. Like Tina said, I can't believe it feels like it was 10 minutes.
Victoria Beerer: It really flew by. It was wonderful and it was a great conversation. You ladies are awesome. So I really appreciate you having me.
Tara Bansal: Oh, thanks so much.
Victoria Beerer: Thank you. All right, take care.
Christina Donovan: We hope you found our conversation with Victoria helpful.
Our connection challenge is to continue learning about long term care but from a more personal perspective.
We hope you will talk to someone about their opinion and experience with long term care or the lack of it.
What did their parents or grandparents do and what was their parents or grandparents end of life care like?
The point is to start learning about others experiences and perspectives on this important topic.
Tara always says that from her experience.
People who have had to care for their parents or saw the challenges with aging parents and loved ones are much more motivated to get long term care for themselves.
The more perspectives and experiences you hear,
the more confident you will be once you begin your planning and conversation around this topic.
Good luck.
Tara Bansal: Thank you for joining us today on Messy Middlescence. You can always find more about us plus the transcript or show notes at our website www.messymiddalescence.com.
m E S S Y M I D D L E S C E N C E and if you liked what you heard, please subscribe or share this episode with a friend.
See you next time.
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Victoria Branca Beerer is the Long-Term Care Specialist at The Rampart-Hilb Agency. She joined the family business of Insurance in 2010. Her role as LTC Specialist is to educate agents and clients about planning for Longevity and she is passionate about helping people see the importance of creating a Long-Term Care plan.
Victoria provides support and knowledge about different product options available for Long Term Care including traditional policies, Asset Protection and Hybrid products. She has earned her CSA and CLTC designations.
Victoria graduated from West Chester University and lives in Blue Bell, PA with her husband Matt and two children, Brooklyn and Jack.
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Here is Victoria’s contact information:
Victoria Beerer
Sr. Vice President
Director of Long Term Care
Rampart-Hilb Agency
Phone: 267-898-3548
Email: victoria.beerer@rampartlife.com
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Our connection challenge is to talk to someone about Long Term Care. What are their thoughts on it? What did their parents or grandparents do and what was their end-of-life care like? The point is to start a conversation and learn perspectives and insights about it from others. In Tara’s experience, people who had to care for their parents or saw the challenges with aging parents/loved ones are generally much more motivated to get LTC for themselves. The more perspectives you have, the more confident you will be with your own planning and decisions.